New Owner, 70' Fasty

Fastback, Squareback, Notchback, T-3 Karmann Ghia.

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wdollie6
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Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by wdollie6 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:21 pm

Updated engine pics. Everything ready to fire, now need to be allowed the time to do so.
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Amskeptic
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Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:28 pm

wdollie6 wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:21 pm
Updated engine pics. Everything ready to fire, now need to be allowed the time to do so.

Do you "appreciate" the remarkable packaging of a 1600 VW engine with fuel injection stuffed into a space barely 18" tall?
Good Luck,
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

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wdollie6
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Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by wdollie6 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:47 am

Every day, not! Now that I have removed, touched and felt every component of the fuel injection system I have a much better understanding of the basics. While that probably won't get me far for fine tuning it certainly is helpful.

I believe my distributor is somewhat worn although it does advance and snap back to the correct position, the vertical play seems excessive, side to side is fine. Plan on starting today, regardless of interference from outside influences. Of course that will depend on willingness to start. Does the E2000 fuel pump require gravity or can it pull from a gas can on the ground?

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Amskeptic
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Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:13 am

wdollie6 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:47 am
Does the E2000 fuel pump require gravity or can it pull from a gas can on the ground?
It should be able to pull gas, but you might want to temporarily put gas can above the elevation of the pump to allow the chambers to fill with gas. Otherwise, you could get air cavitation that will not draw fuel.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

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wdollie6
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Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by wdollie6 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:04 pm

Okay, quick update before a Town Board meeting. Yesterday I cut out large rusted area in left inner fender and welded in a sizable patch (I had tried to get the proper sheet metal piece from Joel on the West Coast and others to no avail). So took a piece of cardboard, made a template and it is done. Will have to make a bracket for the brake fluid reservoir as I couldn't recreate the step in the original metal, should be straight forward. Welding was okay, required a lot of grinding and re-welding in spots.

Next project is right front inner followed by front bumper mounts.

Now for the really big news, pressurized the fuel system for the first time this afternoon (discovered and resolved several fuel hose clamp leaks) no leaks elsewhere. The only confusion for me was that I am not sure when to check for the 28-30 psi, especially when trying to do it myself. I ran the fuel pump three or four times to pressurize the system then went to the back and tried to see the pressure on the gauge, it dropped quickly so decided that I needed to change the pressure regulator out with another spare that came with the car. This seemed to provide more consistency as my son verified that it was leveling out around 28-29 psi. That being said when the fuel pump first comes on the gauge spikes to 50 psi then drops to the 28-29 range.

So with the fuel system working properly (hopefully) decided it was time to try the long awaited start. Good news was that in two cranks the engine fired up and ran the bad news is it was only for 15-20 secs. Sounded good, no clouds of debris, (must have cleared that out the last time) and as importantly no smoke of any type. Unfortunately wasn't able to get to the back fast enough to try and keep the engine going, that being said the second attempt resulted in another 15-20 sec. run. I would call that a good start, pun intended. I definitely need a new battery as the one I am using is 10+ years old and didn't have the oomph for multiple starts, even after fully charging the day before.

Suggestions are welcomed. I did check the oil for gas in case an injector was leaking causing a drop in pressure, no gas smell, new oil looked great. I will advise of results once I install a new battery. From what I have read a consistent 13+ volts is critical for the FI system along with the 28 psi fuel pressure.

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Amskeptic
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Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:39 pm

wdollie6 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:04 pm
Okay, quick update before a Town Board meeting. Yesterday I cut out large rusted area in left inner fender and welded in a sizable patch (I had tried to get the proper sheet metal piece from Joel on the West Coast and others to no avail). So took a piece of cardboard, made a template and it is done. Will have to make a bracket for the brake fluid reservoir as I couldn't recreate the step in the original metal, should be straight forward. Welding was okay, required a lot of grinding and re-welding in spots.

Next project is right front inner followed by front bumper mounts.

Now for the really big news, pressurized the fuel system for the first time this afternoon (discovered and resolved several fuel hose clamp leaks) no leaks elsewhere. The only confusion for me was that I am not sure when to check for the 28-30 psi, especially when trying to do it myself. I ran the fuel pump three or four times to pressurize the system then went to the back and tried to see the pressure on the gauge, it dropped quickly so decided that I needed to change the pressure regulator out with another spare that came with the car. This seemed to provide more consistency as my son verified that it was leveling out around 28-29 psi. That being said when the fuel pump first comes on the gauge spikes to 50 psi then drops to the 28-29 range.

So with the fuel system working properly (hopefully) decided it was time to try the long awaited start. Good news was that in two cranks the engine fired up and ran the bad news is it was only for 15-20 secs. Sounded good, no clouds of debris, (must have cleared that out the last time) and as importantly no smoke of any type. Unfortunately wasn't able to get to the back fast enough to try and keep the engine going, that being said the second attempt resulted in another 15-20 sec. run. I would call that a good start, pun intended. I definitely need a new battery as the one I am using is 10+ years old and didn't have the oomph for multiple starts, even after fully charging the day before.

Suggestions are welcomed. I did check the oil for gas in case an injector was leaking causing a drop in pressure, no gas smell, new oil looked great. I will advise of results once I install a new battery. From what I have read a consistent 13+ volts is critical for the FI system along with the 28 psi fuel pressure.

Yes you need a good battery with reserve.
Yes, you need a fuel gauge monitor person in the back. You can have 28-36 psi static pressure, and find that it slowly drops when the engine is running due to a clog in the return line or a jam up at the three hose t-mess at the pump. Let us know what you find ...
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

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wdollie6
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Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by wdollie6 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:08 pm

With the new E2000 fuel pump no "three hose t-mess" in the front, should eliminate that as a problem. Also, all new fuel hoses and blew out the hard lines from front to back so blockage should not be an issue (yes there was crap in the hard lines, but no blockage).

New battery in the morning, will advise. Do they still sell the pressure regulators?

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tommu
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Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by tommu » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:23 pm

I quickly searched for pressure regulators and it looks like they are NLA. Bosch helpfully tell you what other cars used the same part: https://www.bosch-automotive-catalog.co ... 0280160001

You might be able to find something out of the EU for a FIAT or something?
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wdollie6
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Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by wdollie6 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:35 am

Tommu, thanks for the information. Last night I was on the Bus Depot web site looking for a part for my bus when on a whim decided to look at their Type 3 parts. Was pleasantly surprised to see the pressure regulator in stock and available (only 3 left) apparently they had bought what they described as the last available stock of Bosch. Lucky me, should have in a few days.

Now have to determine what battery type a Type 3 needs and find one in our little hamlet.

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wdollie6
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Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by wdollie6 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:38 am

https://www.busdepot.com/0280160001

Instead of three, it says a "few" left. Probably should buy another one for backup!

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wdollie6
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Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by wdollie6 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:17 pm

So a new battery made all of the difference in the world. Once installed had an immediate start, albeit rough. Definitely need a new exhaust (although not sure where to get one...). The car ran reasonably well for about 10-15 minutes, idled fine and was able to go from idle to full throttle cleanly with minimal hesitation. Once warmed up, I shut it down to go take care of some other business. When I returned a few minutes later pulled out the timing light expecting an easy restart, unfortunately not to be as it was a no go.

Clearly have fuel as I can smell the gas and the fuel pressure when running was just above the 28 psi mark after several sequences of the key, next step will be electrical checks but battery is new along with points, coil, spark plugs and wires, etc. If anyone has any thoughts let me know, meanwhile I will continue my education of FI and the Fastback in general. The good news is that it ran on FI, apparently suggesting that the system components are functioning, at least somewhat, now need to be dialed in.

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wdollie6
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Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by wdollie6 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:50 pm

Had a few spare minutes today so decided to tempt fate and try a start. Started right up, strange. But same thing again wouldn't restart, although had a gas smell, too rich on restart? So when cold, around 55 deg F today, it starts first time but after warming up and shutting down, won't restart and appears to have fuel. Will reread the troubleshooting information.

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Amskeptic
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Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:59 pm

wdollie6 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:50 pm
too rich on restart?
Yes. Remember that D-Jet goes *rich* with *vacuum leaks*!

Note that the intake plenum has a bolted on end cap. Every hose, Wayne, must be checked for permeability. Check also the manifold sensor. You should be able to apply vacuum, and it must hold.
ColinCLoserandCloser
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

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wdollie6
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Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by wdollie6 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:16 am

Understood regarding the vacuum leaks. Hoses and clamps are all new but will double check tightness. Also will recheck the Manifold Sensor (it was perfect electrically but I had to pull apart and clean out oil), unfortunately don't have a good way to pull a vacuum other than my lungs. I did use the lung and tongue technique and it seemed to hold but not a definitive test for sure. Will find another way. The good news is I have a backup that came with the car that I tested the same way.

So what is the difference, system wise, between a cold start and attempting to restart a somewhat warm engine? Also I just read last night that the car must be started with the throttle fully depressed, mine started with just a touch above idle, does this indicate a necessary adjustment?

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Amskeptic
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Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:25 pm

wdollie6 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:16 am
So what is the difference, system wise, between a cold start and attempting to restart a somewhat warm engine?

I just read last night that the car must be started with the throttle fully depressed, mine started with just a touch above idle, does this indicate a necessary adjustment?

a) somewhat warm engine needs less fuel. You have too much. You are good when cold, and too rich when warmed up.

b) can you be more specific? I know VW provided cold/warm/hot starting instructions.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

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