CoronaVirus Considerations

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Amskeptic
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CoronaVirus Considerations

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:08 am

We may be entering a new-to-us reality here in the U.S., and I will be learning and reacting as many of you will be.
1. Health Effects - to a sensible degree,
a) I must limit my exposure to others.
b) I must be responsible as a "traveling disease vector"

2. Economic Effects - we are in uncharted waters and
a) customer's livelihoods may take some sharp turns
b) my livelihood may be truncated sharply

3. Therefore, during the 2020 Itinerary
a) no deposits will be forfeited
b) I may have to cancel at any time.

Feedback? Comments welcome.

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Mccandmore
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Re: CoronaVirus Considerations

Post by Mccandmore » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:34 pm

Many small businesses will be profoundly impacted by this so I respect and appreciate what you are doing here. I’ll reiterate my offer to take and pay for two full days if you make it to St Louis. And I’ll do my best to maintain a 2 meter distance between us at all times and continually disinfect with carb cleaner.

McCandmore

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Re: CoronaVirus Considerations

Post by SlowLane » Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:16 am

Amskeptic wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:08 am
Feedback? Comments welcome.
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You might want to re-think the facial hair if you're going to start taking face-masks seriously.

Rumour has it that a certain well-known fascist dictator came up with his signature 'stache in WW1 after he discovered that the waxed handlbar he was sporting at the time was preventing his gas mask from sealing properly. Shows that crazy doesn't equate to stupid.

Hey, you did welcome comments. :bom:
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Amskeptic
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Re: CoronaVirus Considerations

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:47 pm

SlowLane wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:16 am
You might want to re-think the facial hair if you're going to start taking face-masks seriously.

Rumour has it that a certain well-known fascist dictator came up with his signature 'stache in WW1 after he discovered that the waxed handlbar he was sporting at the time was preventing his gas mask from sealing properly. Shows that crazy doesn't equate to stupid.

Hey, you did welcome comments. :bom:

Yes, welcome to your comment. That was a gag photo, and yes, facial hair can wreck the efficicacy of a face mask. However, a can of Gumout and a Chlorox/Tide wash bucket do wonders ...
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 116,898 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 84,465 miles

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Re: CoronaVirus Considerations

Post by hippiewannabe » Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:18 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:50 am

...my current what-if is if I need help breathing due to this nasty little virus, somewhere near any population center, will the local healthcare provider be so deeply overwhelmed that I am at the bottom of the list? Do I bolt to the middle of the desert in the next 60 hours and just stay clear for the next three months? Staay tuned. There is much that we U.S. you, I do not yet know.
You're thinking along the right lines. Apparently smoking is a major risk factor for serious complications, so you want to try to avoid getting the virus. If you do get it, you want to be in a place where the health system is not overwhelmed. In Italy, they are overwhelmed, not enough ventilators for everyone who needs one. So they are making literal life and death decisions on who gets the ventilator and who dies. Sorry, as an over 60 smoker, you will die so an otherwise healthy 40 year old can live.

For most people, who may have symptoms no worse than the flu, our duty is to slow the spread to a manageable level. The same number of us may get it, but if we "flatten the curve", and keep the maximum number of cases within the capabilities of the system, it will save lives.

Your Itinerant lifestyle has unique advantages, if you want to carry on. You can avoid hotspots, and if you do start to feel unwell, you can cancel upcoming appointments, self-quarantine, and stay close to an area with still functioning hospitals.

Those of us who are able to hunker down at home for the next couple of weeks should do so, to reduce the steepness of the curve. We will know a lot more by then, and can re-assess.
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Re: CoronaVirus Considerations

Post by jtauxe » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:15 am

bradleygt wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:49 pm
purell wipes, diet heavy on the anti-virals, see zinc post in chats
Please don't propagate misinformation about "anti-virals" in the diet. Let's stick to the science.

The way to fight COVID-19 is 1) social distancing, 2) aggressive protocols in keeping you and your surroundings clean (frequent hand-washing, use of disinfecting agents that are over 60% alcohol, like Purell), and 3) stop touching yer face! These are CDC's recommendations.
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Re: CoronaVirus Considerations

Post by jtauxe » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:17 am

Amskeptic wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:50 am
Mccandmore wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:34 pm
Many small businesses will be profoundly impacted by this so I respect and appreciate what you are doing here. I’ll reiterate my offer to take and pay for two full days if you make it to St Louis. And I’ll do my best to maintain a 2 meter distance between us at all times and continually disinfect with carb cleaner.

McCandmore
I generally try to stay away from "what-if"s, but my current what-if is if I need help breathing due to this nasty little virus, somewhere near any population center, will the local healthcare provider be so deeply overwhelmed that I am at the bottom of the list? Do I bolt to the middle of the desert in the next 60 hours and just stay clear for the next three months? Staay tuned. There is much that we U.S. you, I do not yet know.
Colin
If you need help breathing, and not until then, go to the local ER and hope that they can get you through your crisis. Alternatively, the desert is a classic place to die.
John
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Re: CoronaVirus Considerations

Post by jtauxe » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:19 am

SlowLane wrote: You might want to re-think the facial hair if you're going to start taking face-masks seriously.
<snip>
The purpose of a face mask in this application, or even a bandana, is not to keep you from breathing in aerosolized stuff, but rather to keep you from touching your face. Specifically, keep your hands away from your eyes, nose, and mouth.

This is so hard for me.
John
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Re: CoronaVirus Considerations

Post by jtauxe » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:39 am

Amskeptic wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:08 am
We may be entering a new-to-us reality here in the U.S., and I will be learning and reacting as many of you will be.
1. Health Effects - to a sensible degree,
a) I must limit my exposure to others.
b) I must be responsible as a "traveling disease vector"
Quite right, Colin. You need to take with you a large supply of disposable gloves, soap, paper towels, and hand sanitizer that is over 60% alcohol. Carb cleaner and Clorox don't cut it. Bleach is effective against bacteria, but COVID-19 is a virus. Stick to what is known to work.

I would suggest that you develop a protocol for your visits. This should involve the following:

- Ask if anyone in the household is symptomatic, and make sure that person does not come into your space.

- Do not enter your client's homes if possible. Have your cuppa and info session outside. Bring your own pencil and paper. Bring your own coffee cup and have your host fill it with no contact.

- As you enter your client's space (driveway, bus, garage...) consider it "dirty" and consider yourself "clean" (as if). Work to maintain that barrier by using gloves. The hard part is that when you touch their bus/tools/stuff and then touch your tools/stuff. If you use your tools, wipe them down with the alcohol after use. Do not touch them with dirty gloves after doing so. Keep a separate bin of used tools that you will clean and the last thing you do before putting them away, with your own clean hands.

- Wear a mask like you are doing in the photo. This may help keep you from touching your face.

- Keep up the social distancing. It will be tough to keep a 2-meter distance between you and your clients, but you should strive to do so, and strive to get their cooperation in doing so.

Speaking of which, for your CLIENTS:

- When Colin arrives, consider him "dirty" (not a big stretch). Keep him outside.

- If you have anyone sick in your house, keep them sequestered (inside) for the duration of the visit.

- Think of yourself and your space (house/garage/bus) as "clean".

- Wear gloves and a face mask for the above reasons, and treat your own tools that are used as Colin treat's his (see above). that is, keep them on the outside of the gloves and consider them dirty. Clean them with alcohol or soap and hot water at the end of the day, without "reinfecting" them with dirty gloves.

- Help Colin stay behind his barrier by offering coffee or other beverages without touching his stuff. Fill his coffee cup from your carafe without touching.

- Strive to maintain that 2-m distance between yourself and Colin.

This sounds hard, and it is, but it is effective. In order to make it work, you're going to have to be diligent, and by all means keep up the banter and humor!

For people comfortable with working on greasy things, think of your actions like your hands are filthy with grease, and yet you are wearing your Sunday best clothes, and your bus is a show-car. That may help bring an awareness of how to handle your hands.

In case anyone is wondering why I am dispensing this advice so adamantly, I have a brother at CDC who is keeping me informed about the latest in protection and COVID-19 protocols.

Stay safe, everyone!
John
"The bus came by and I got on. That's when it all began..." - Garcia/Weir/Kreutzman
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Re: CoronaVirus Considerations

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:24 am

jtauxe wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:39 am
Amskeptic wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:08 am
I will be learning and reacting as many of you will be.
Quite right, Colin.
In case anyone is wondering why I am dispensing this advice so adamantly, I have a brother at CDC who is keeping me informed about the latest in protection and COVID-19 protocols.
Stay safe, everyone!

I, too, am keeping up on what we are learning.
a) Itinerary cancelled until further notice

b) risk of mortality has been linked to your initial viral load and how deep it gets BEFORE your body can rally a response. The exponential growth curve of asymptomatic transmission that so many southern governors could not appreciate ( that means you, Brian Kemp! ) has seeded the south with a rapidly unfolding disaster. The same is true in each of our bronchial tracts. If you got too many little buggers too far down, they will exponentially increase in number before your body gets a clue, and off to pneumonia immune response runaway ...

c) sorry! if you end up on a ventilator, you should know that the mortality rate is 80% +. Once you have to force oxygen in past your mucus and inflamed tissues, the pressure required also damages your aveoli.

God, I wish we had taken this seriously at the beginning ... please may we rededicate to trusting the real experts, the real professionals among us once more? Science!
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 116,898 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 84,465 miles

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Re: CoronaVirus Considerations

Post by wdollie6 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:35 pm

The question becomes who or where are the professionals with the science? In NY we were told by the New York City mayor and Senior Health Officials in early Feb. that there was nothing to worry about, take the trains, buses, travel, go to the movies, no cause for concern. This direction was dangerous and misleading as even then the virus had been identified in the continental United States, I believe they were already testing for it in NYC, may have even identified infections.

While we are 2 hours from the city, out of the epicenter to a degree, we have been inundated by NYC families rushing to their second homes in the Catskills. Our rural infrastructure in no way can support this, not to mention the potential for significant increase in infections (I have sons, daughters, grand daughters permanently residing here, the additional risk is not acceptable). This migration happened even after the NY Governor requested/dictated that everyone stay in place, finally providing reasonable advice, unfortunately ignored by many. I can understand that fright leads to flight, but all this has done is exacerbate the situation. As a matter of fact those from NYC that have tested positive locally have been transported back to the city as we have extremely limited equipment/bed space at our shrinking number of small local hospitals.

So even when science indicates that there our strategic ways to slow the spread of this virus, human nature rules the day. I don't believe the Southern States should be singled out as having shortcomings in leadership, us Northerners didn't do much better, maybe even worse considering population density.

Oh... and yes I am pissed about an apparent lack of common sense and an inability to follow clear, science based directions that have been provided thousands of times over the last weeks/month. Does following them guarantee non-infection, no, however they greatly improve one's odds. Happily dreaming of a non-Coronavirus altered summer, although might turn into a nightmare instead.

The rant is over, my apologies. Colin feel free to move or delete as necessary.

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Re: CoronaVirus Considerations

Post by jtauxe » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:58 am

wdollie6 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:35 pm
The question becomes who or where are the professionals with the science?
They are there, at CDC, WHO, and other epidemiological centers. They are giving advice.

Sadly, and at the cost of many lives, their advice is being undermined by government officials (some of whom claim to have been elected) whose interests are aligned with their personal finances. I work in science (as an environmental engineer) and I see this all the time. We give decision makers the best science we can about, say, a contaminated site, and they make their decisions based on who can make the most money out of it and who they are connected to. It is supremely frustrating. I feel bad for the Dr Faucis of the world, trying to advise idiots.

Sorry, Colin, this is getting a bit off track. Or is it? :)
John
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Re: CoronaVirus Considerations

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:34 pm

No it is not off track.

Here is Barack Obama, December 2014 at the National Institute For Health.
The funding we're asking for is needed to keep strengthening our capacity here at home so we can respond to any future Ebola cases.

It's needed to help us partner with other countries to prevent and deal with future outbreaks and threats before they become epidemics.

We were lucky with H1N1 that it did not prove to be more deadly. We can't say we're lucky with Ebola because obviously it's having a devastating effect in West Africa, but it is not airborne in its transmission.

There may and likely will come a time in which we have both an airborne disease that is deadly. And in order for us to deal with that effectively, we have to put in place an infrastructure, not just here at home, but globally that allows us to isolate it quickly, see it quickly, respond to it quickly.

So that if and when a new strain of flu, like the Spanish flu, crops up five years from now or a decade from now, we've made the investment and we're further along to be able to catch it.

It's a smart investment for us to make. It's not just insurance; it is knowing that down the road we're gonna continue to have problems like this – particularly in a globalised world where you move from one side of the world to the other in a day.

So it's important now, but it's also important for our future and our children's future, and our grandchildren's future.
The differences between Obama and Trump cannot be more stark ...
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 116,898 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 84,465 miles

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Re: CoronaVirus Considerations

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:41 pm

wdollie6 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:35 pm
The question becomes who or where are the professionals with the science? In NY we were told by the New York City mayor and Senior Health Officials in early Feb. that there was nothing to worry about, take the trains, buses, travel, go to the movies, no cause for concern. This direction was dangerous and misleading as even then the virus had been identified in the continental United States, I believe they were already testing for it in NYC, may have even identified infections.
Taking their cues from Trump? Still ignorant about the 14 day incubation period without symptoms? I don't know. But Brian Kemp trying to declare that he did not know of asymptomatic transmission on March 30???? Underhill of Florida trying to get the beaches re-opened three days ago?? Ron DeSantis ignoring the friggen virus contagion wildfire going on in Georgia just across the border, March 29-30? Hell no, Wayne.

New York City is the densest city in the US, and a lot of people packed closely together made it waay easier for the coronavirus to spread. New York State also tested people at more than four times the rate of California, which could partly explain the difference between both states’ reported cases and deaths.

A big factor also, “There’s the possibility that there were just more introductions of the virus in the East Coast, in the New York area,” - Jeffrey Martin, an epidemiologist at the University of California San Francisco.
And that is true. Although Trump tried to smear the Chinese, we now know that Europe was the primary seed for New York City cases.

Cuomo, I hope you agree, has been a steady factual and empathetic leader through this.

wdollie6 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:35 pm
We have been inundated by NYC families rushing to their second homes in the Catskills.
Same up in Essex on Lake Champlain. They paid their taxes, they supported their local summer communities, **they relieved the load in the critical NYC space** and you are not yet telling me that people are dying in the hallways of Delhi's hospital ... are you? If not, be charitable a little. Yes, demand a 14 day quarantee for all arrivals from the city, but do not begrudge them.
wdollie6 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:35 pm
human nature rules the day. I don't believe the Southern States should be singled out as having shortcomings in leadership, us Northerners didn't do much better, maybe even worse considering population density.
Wayne, you haven't seen nothing yet. Are you looking at the fatality rates?? New York did a solid job! Georgia is doing horribly in Albany area (Albany GA). We are still two weeks away from peak. It is a damn party down here in Pensacola. Church services! yeah, they are "essential", "God will protect us", Brian Kemp, Ron DeSantis, you have no idea how rapidly this thing is spreading through prisons and nursing homes yet. It is not going to be pretty.
wdollie6 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:35 pm
Happily dreaming of a non-Coronavirus altered summer, although might turn into a nightmare instead. The rant is over, my apologies. Colin feel free to move or delete as necessary.

Public discourse is a necessary and critical aspect to a vibrant democracy ...
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 116,898 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 84,465 miles

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