What happens in Vegas....

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ScottLasVegas
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What happens in Vegas....

Post by ScottLasVegas » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:36 am

This is my second year on the docket, so I was really eager to make sure all wrongs were righted prior to Colin swinging through the desert. The most important to remedy, my lack of a coffee pot (i'm not a coffee drinker). Fresh coffee in hand, we sat down and chatted about concerns I had with my bus, and things i would like to do with my bus in the future.

Our first order of business, a valve adjustment. I have done one other valve adjustment ever, and that was last year with Colin. I knew it was time for another, but I wanted the security blanket of Colin there to make sure I had my process in order. Other than some concern with the #2 intake, everything was within spec with minimal wear. I let him know that I was concerned my engine was running hot. After taking a look at the plugs, he said they looked ok, but your plug boots are shot, that will throw a lot of heat back there.

Up next, I have been attempting to chase down and remedy a pretty horrible shifting experience. I've tried new stop plates, new shifters, new bushings, new cables, new bowden tube, and OCD checking of Free Play, and it always felt terrible. Trouble into First and Second from a stop, a clunk into reverse on occasion. Multiple trips to a local shop to get a fresh set of eyes, feel better for two weeks, then back to the same old. First, we needed more sag in the bowden tube, a couple of properly placed spacers (dremeled into a "d" shape), and that looked better. That is when we noticed the top bolt on the bracket had the beginnings of stripping out. Longer bolt and spacer later, bracket is secure. One of the crankcase studs had also pulled out, so Colin delicately tackled that issue. Checked the other studs were tight (one wasn't), got the free play back into spec. Essentially, everything was so lucy goosey from the bow tube back, that i was getting another inch of free play.

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As you can see, my floor is pretty roached. If you look a bit closer, you can see a bit of the madness that is my gas pedal (Yes, that is a cabinet door hinge). Well, I just kind of dealt with it knowing that once i finally find a donor floor, I will be able to do something about it. Colin took one look, and asked if I actually drove this bus like that? I felt shame. Well, 3 dremel bits, and a gradually drilling to attain the proper opening of both the floor and pedal hinge (i believe Colin took some photos of the process), I can say that the pedal is now secure and functioning quite well. Pair that with a throttle cable adjustment so that the pedal actually reaches the floor, its pretty fantastic.

Test drive time!!! Colin took the wheel first, and once again tried to explain to me the subtlety of the double shift. It still baffles the shit out of me, and I just can't seem to grasp why or how. Call me thick or whatever adjective/name you like, i just don't get it.

Also during said test drive, we noticed she was running a bit "nervous", so I drove us back to the house while getting a tutorial on shift points, and to quit giving her gas before full clutch release. I was so mesmerized by the like new feeling shifting and gas pedal response, i just couldn't help it. I tried this same excuse during the ride, and it didn't hold water with Colin either.

Back at the house we checked the timing, Hall Effect threw my brand new gun in a tizzy ( going back to the FLAPS), and Colin grabbed his and we decided the timing was spot on. Tried to adjust idle, to no effect. I will be tracking down a Vacuum Leak this weekend, and replacing some hoses.

Final Breakdown/To-Do List:
Do the valves again this weekend. Slight noise from the 1/2 side that may need attention, just in case.
Vacuum Leak Test
Spark Plug Boots
Check Torque on Shocks
Check snugness on Bowden Tube Bracket and Crankcase

Colin said his farewells around 7:00-7:30. He was heading straight up to Salt Lake City from my place. I truly enjoy his visits and knowledge (VW & Worldly). As long as he is making the rounds, I will reserve a spot on the trip. Last year, I promised myself that I would be infinitely better at taking photos to document things. I didn't take a single photo, not even one of Chloe.

I hope the Eclipse is spectacular, Colin. Safe Travels.
79 Riviera CA FI

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Amskeptic
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Re: What happens in Vegas....

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:03 am

On the road to Las Vegas:

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It was hot, but the brown cow was imperturbable:

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I love the vast stretches:

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Even at 103* ambient these days:

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This journey to Las Vegas was courtesy US 95:

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Decided to return the Desert KoolAir Extra-Capacity VW 1600 Fan:

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(it's actually a turbine blade off the Hoover Dam generating station)

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Camped up at the water tower overlooking Las Vegas again, like I did in 2015:

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Good little cow did fine on that baking blast from Needles CA to Henderson NV:

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Did I know that they had installed a jogging/bicycle path just over the gravel berm since 2015 while I shaved and did my Motel6 bucket bath for the shock and amusement of bicyclists and joggers?? NOOOoooooo. Thankfully, what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas:

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Daytime Vegas on the way to Scott's house:

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A lot of this going on as the valley inexorably fills with developments. I remember when this was mostly a sandy (beautiful) wasteland:

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AND here we are at Scott's house. Yes, the Keurig coffee was splendid, and I showed zero restraint in the proximity of the Danish Assortment. Scott has an excellent and droll outlook of the current state of the world:

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Ex-cabinet hinge mess:

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This is the face of a man on a personal mission to save his car from a horrific gas pedal:

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New pedal bracket exactly stationed at the site of the original pedal bracket:

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It happened. Enjoyed our day, and sorry I was such a chatterbox on all topics . . . but the sugar buzz:

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Extremely hot evening escaping Las Vegas to the north, got lost in the underside of Vegas and never have I seen so many homeless people sacked out over sidewalks and benches and up against trees. It was like a Zombie Apocalypse which it actually is. There were also many hot irritated bored people loitering at gas stations asking me slightly off questions.

But I woke up here . . . :

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2019 Annual Funding Drive!
**********************************
https://itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewto ... 41&t=13755

BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,145 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,812 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 97,060 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 76,650 miles

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tommu
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Re: What happens in Vegas....

Post by tommu » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:36 am

ScottLasVegas wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:36 am

Test drive time!!! Colin took the wheel first, and once again tried to explain to me the subtlety of the double shift. It still baffles the shit out of me, and I just can't seem to grasp why or how. Call me thick or whatever adjective/name you like, i just don't get it.
Colin and I discussed this too, and the fact that maybe the phrase 'double clutch' isn't too helpful. So I'm going to teach my son the manners of 'Polite Clutching'. Saying please before entering neutral and thanks when leaving it in elderly cars. Such as this. "Manners maketh the gearshift."

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ScottLasVegas
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Re: What happens in Vegas....

Post by ScottLasVegas » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:53 am

Colin and I discussed this too, and the fact that maybe the phrase 'double clutch' isn't too helpful. So I'm going to teach my son the manners of 'Polite Clutching'. Saying please before entering neutral and thanks when leaving it in elderly cars. Such as this. "Manners maketh the gearshift."
This makes more sense to me, i am still uneasy performing the double clutch, but this explains the purpose of it a bit more. Who knew that Colin's visits could also be considered a VW finishing school of sorts.
79 Riviera CA FI

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Amskeptic
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Re: What happens in Vegas....

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:49 pm

ScottLasVegas wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:53 am
Colin and I discussed this too, and the fact that maybe the phrase 'double clutch' isn't too helpful. So I'm going to teach my son the manners of 'Polite Clutching'. Saying please before entering neutral and thanks when leaving it in elderly cars. Such as this. "Manners maketh the gearshift."
This makes more sense to me, i am still uneasy performing the double clutch, but this explains the purpose of it a bit more. Who knew that Colin's visits could also be considered a VW finishing school of sorts.

It is a finishing school of sorts, how to make your VW last forever.
Every morning is "please" and every evening is "thank-you, I don't know how you do it." And of course every shift is always devoted to becoming more coordinated, synchronized, and smooth. I love the imperceptible shift when it happens.

Scott, go read this:

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=7896#p141182

Read it for real. Imagine what is described. If the text says all the red is rotating every time the car is in motion, figure it out right there. Get back to me. It is painfully over-written, but the info is there. After six or so read-throughs, it might make sense . . . :blackeye:
Colin
2019 Annual Funding Drive!
**********************************
https://itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewto ... 41&t=13755

BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,145 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,812 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 97,060 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 76,650 miles

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Bleyseng
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Re: What happens in Vegas....

Post by Bleyseng » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:52 pm

I always double clutch on downshifts but no so much on upshifts. I have driven several cars with blown clutches home by matching the rpms so you can shift up or down and starting out in first gear.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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Amskeptic
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Re: What happens in Vegas....

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:22 pm

Bleyseng wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:52 pm
I always double clutch on downshifts but no so much on upshifts. I have driven several cars with blown clutches home by matching the rpms so you can shift up or down and starting out in first gear.
This is not that.
You are using the same principles to *make your synchros act like the clutch* which is hell on the synchros.

Double-clutching allows the synchros to last forever.

Now, right here, explain to the readership exactly how you start off with a "blown clutch" otherwise known as a clutch that won't disengage.
Your sentence is criminally blasé on the procedure. :blackeye:
Colin
2019 Annual Funding Drive!
**********************************
https://itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewto ... 41&t=13755

BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,145 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,812 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 97,060 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 76,650 miles

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Bleyseng
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Re: What happens in Vegas....

Post by Bleyseng » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:35 am

Well, I figured it was obvious that you start the car in first gear then accelerate slowly to when the gear shift just slides into second gear, then into third. There is a bit of touch to it but its a neat trick once you get the feel of it. Put it in neutral when you have to stop and turn off the car. Repeat starting the car in first.
I wouldn't want to drive across America this way but all cars used to not have syncro's and driving one was a bit of a trick shifting.

I think if you double clutch when you upshift its a waste of time as the gears do line up and the syncro's hardly work. Downshifting is where double clutching makes sense to get the gears to spin up to line up and not work the syncro's so hard.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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ScottLasVegas
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Re: What happens in Vegas....

Post by ScottLasVegas » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:41 am

Read it for real. Imagine what is described. If the text says all the red is rotating every time the car is in motion, figure it out right there. Get back to me.
I have read it a total of 5 times. The first three times without referencing the illustrations, the last two read throughs with reference to them. It does makes sense now, and your pointers during the test drive also have more clarity. When you kept telling me to fully release the clutch prior to gassing , and to leave it in neutral during turns, then pick the best gear for the job is a much more "polite" way to pilot these beasts.

I am going to have to completely reteach myself how to drive a manual, but seems like a cheaper alternative than beating the shit out of my trans every time i go for a spin.
79 Riviera CA FI

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sgkent
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Re: What happens in Vegas....

Post by sgkent » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:27 pm

just be gentle and take your time when you shift. Give the transmission synchro rings time to spin up/down the gears. It is not a drag race trans, They are a brass or moly coated brass ring that grabs the gear and spins it up/down to the same speed as the gear it is engaging. The synchro spins the gear so the slider/ hub assembly can engage the shaft and gear. The higher gears like 3 and 4 are smaller in mass than 1 and 2, It takes more time and energy to spin up 1 and 2 than 3 and 4 so be gentle and easy. Do not get in the habit of holding the clutch in for extended periods like when cornering. It puts undo wear on the engine thrust surfaces and throw out bearing. The shift pattern is an H - meaning it is not a " / " straight from 2 to 3 or 3 to 2.

1 3
|-|
2 4

not

1 3
|/|
2 4

You can see the brass synchro rings - 4 brass rings

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Machine Work/Shop Recommendations: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/machinework.pdf

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tommu
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Re: What happens in Vegas....

Post by tommu » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:45 pm

Thanks for posting that image Steve, very interesting. I wonder why only 4th gear synchro is worn in my Bus. 1 2 and 3 are perfect.

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Re: What happens in Vegas....

Post by sgkent » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:59 pm

there is a possibility that the mainshaft bearing has worn into the nosecone. If so the gear cluster is moving out of alignment. It can be fixed cheaply if one has the mechanical ability to pull the engine, trans, and nosecone. There is a metal plate that can be installed to push parts into alignment again, along with cleaning up the wear on the nosecone. Also a loose pinion nut can cause issues. If it starts popping out of 4th it is too late.

The big bearing eats into the nosecone over the life of the trans. You can see in this photo that this gear carrier has been sleeved to help make up for sideways wear as well. The 091 has a key and flat spot for the key in it to slow wear compared to an 002.

Image
Thank You -

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Machine Work/Shop Recommendations: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/machinework.pdf

Pointers on rebuilding an engine: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/rebuilding_a_vw_engine.pdf

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Re: What happens in Vegas....

Post by asiab3 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:25 pm

I really enjoy reading that article every so often when I'm bored. I double clutch relentlessly, but still find new nuggets of information, like the "mass of the 1-2 vs. 3-4 hubs."
tommu wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:45 pm
Thanks for posting that image Steve, very interesting. I wonder why only 4th gear synchro is worn in my Bus. 1 2 and 3 are perfect.
I can't talk on a mechanical cause like Steve can, but I can speculate that your previous bus driver probably "speed shifted" into 4th getting on the freeway in the morning because they were in a hurry. Rushing through the gears is a great way to wear out a synchronizer. But if you get the transaxle looked at soon, I'm sure Bela will proffer a diagnosis too.

4th is an odd synchronizer to go out, because there is no way to downshift into 4th, like other gears. Unless they did something weird like coast down hills in neutral and slam the shifter into 4th at the bottom going 55mph......

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
119k miles with me.
296k miles on Earth.

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Re: What happens in Vegas....

Post by tommu » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:50 pm

asiab3 wrote: I'm sure Bela will proffer a diagnosis too.
Bela is in his 80s now and loves to tell how he started working on VWs in the 50s. I popped round to see him with Gary to discuss the issue with my transmission. He showed me the work in front of me.

This Vanagon had been towed to Bela for another job. The tow truck driver drove it off the truck and it promptly caught fire:

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He had another very nice Vanagon in need of an engine rebuilt. Newlyweds were on their honeymoon when something ricocheted off the car and hit the oil filler, bending to to a right angle and snapping the fan belt. The couple kept driving until the heads literally melted. He said it was the most puzzling thing he'd ever seen. Why didn't they just stop!

It's going to be sad when he's no longer around.

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Re: What happens in Vegas....

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:18 pm

Bleyseng wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:35 am
Well, I figured it was obvious that you start the car in first gear

I think if you double clutch when you upshift its a waste of time as the gears do line up and the syncro's hardly work. Downshifting is where double clutching makes sense to get the gears to spin up to line up and not work the syncro's so hard.
Let's get specific for the readership. Hey readers! If your clutch cable snaps and drops the pedal to the floor never to return, you can still get home.

You have to shut off the engine at every stop. You have to start the engine in first gear which causes a nasty bit of lunging forward as it catches. Make sure you have space in front of you.
Like I said, it is hell on the car.

Double-clutching on the upshift is absolutely critical for the several customers I have who have beaten to death 2nd and/or 3rd gear synchros. These are tall ratios, and with a warm gearbox, you must give the gearset time to slow. Ask weisswurst the timing we had to do on upshifts to get clean gear changes after we drained out six broken synchro keys on his Vanagon. Approximately "one one thousand" sounded out at dead-on 3,200 rpm.
ColinAhhThe GoodOlDaysInMiami
2019 Annual Funding Drive!
**********************************
https://itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewto ... 41&t=13755

BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,145 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,812 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 97,060 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 76,650 miles

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