Hood River Placeholder (+ Oregon write-up!-ed)

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71whitewesty
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Hood River Placeholder (+ Oregon write-up!-ed)

Post by 71whitewesty » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:08 am

This is just a place holder for now. I'll work on the report this next week.
Since Colin's visit a week and a half ago I've driven just over 1,000 miles of flawless, smooth running, fully loaded road trips in the 71 westy.
Today we leave on our two week annual Bus trip. This year we are headed to Whistler for a couple days of biking and then on to Jasper and Banff and then down to eastern Oregon for the eclipse. Should be about 2500-3000 miles. But before we leave today I need to replace a cv boot and am waiting for the mailman to deliver it.
Taking Bus 2 again for the 3rd year in a row. Bus 1 seems to be coughing up engines so it will sit this year out...again.
Ok now that I have a spot in here I'll add to it and give the detailed report when I get some time during the trip.
But another great visit this year and I learn a lot each time.
I have about two photos of the visit and I'll post them up too..eventually.

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chachi
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled visits Hood River

Post by chachi » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:22 am

sounds like such a fun trip. bon vacances!
1974 transporter panel, 2.0 dual solex
1991 vanagon NAHT, RJE 2.3

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Re: Hood River Placeholder (+ Oregon write-up!-ed)

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:16 am

I am so embarrassed. The LuckyLab gathering photos threw my chronology to the wind, and I missed an entire Oregon photo dump/travelogue/pithy philosophical musings that you all have come to expect and not receive.

While we wait for 71westy to return from his travels, my first morning in the greater Portland metro area saw this:

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It was at the truck stop off I-84 in Troutdale. On the one hand, this person was left alone to get his night's sleep in the middle of a high-traffic morning, on the other hand, this person was left alone to figure it out alone. That was the inspiration for me to camp under the bridge in Eureka. The United States of America . . .

. . . on beautiful planet Earth:

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I love the drive up the Columbia River Gorge in the morning as the marine layer slowly begins to lift. In prior years, this drive has been a desperate lunge towards the beckoning sunshine with promised warmth inland. Fortunately, this summer's lap was blessed with ample sun and warmth:

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So, I was annoyed again with a view-blocking train . . . but then it dawned on me, dayam, that is a double-decker freight train. Since when have they been double-decking? How long have I not noted?

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I had a totally different view in mind when I took the shot than the camera. The camera won out:

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Arrived at 71westy's house and, as always, took inordinate pleasure in the view as I arrived. You just can't take a bad photograph in this driveway. Never have. And it has been a couple of years now. Here is this year's photo:

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We had a relaxed day of visiting his shop, his forlorn engine from White Westy # (fill in the blank) in the shop which is making a noise as it is rotated, and his wiper grommets on White Westy # (fill in the blank). Drove around and marveled at volcanos and had lunch at the place where we have lunch. I hope Sean fills in on all the amazingly productive things we did. I only remember getting roped in for a spot of dinner when I had to come back to get my camera battery & charger out of the kitchen counter plug. We had a nice conversation with the two German exchange students. Then I hit the Columbia Gorge Panorama into the sunset:

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This photograph was an accidental result of my trying to "punish" this truck driver who was all over the interstate, swerving and kicking up gravel. I just knew he was texting. Pulled up alongside him because Chloe allows me to do such things these days, and I waved my camera at him and the flash was to tell him that I was "documenting his erratic driving". Well, the camera actually composed the shot and made the picture (he drove much better subsequently:

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I might have dropped this photo in on some other thread, but it belongs here, after the 71whitewesty appointment:

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These early bay drum brakes store up their dust in the drums. Then the dust leaves the brake adjusting holes and fill the hubcaps. Then you go to car wash and admire your pretty clean car. Then you hop in and drive a few miles to go show it off somewhere. Then you look upon your wheels with horror because the brake dust-now-black-watery-streaks has drained out of the hubcaps only under rotation. I needed to get rid of the piles of dust in the drums. Thus, I finally got to paint the front drums:


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(The rears were already painted when I installed these fine fine German drums back in the days of Lame Cow)

http://www.itinerant-air-cooled.com/vie ... 69&t=12680

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The linings are holding up awfully well after 80,000 miles:

FRONT
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REAR
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Rotated the Maxxis 751s that have been behaving perfectly well after the horrendous Daze Of Dezpair in balanced-challenged Eureka:

http://www.itinerant-air-cooled.com/vie ... 69&t=12638

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There's more! Let's wait for 71whitewesty's report . . .
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,820 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,220 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,885 miles

71whitewesty
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Re: Hood River Placeholder (+ Oregon write-up!-ed)

Post by 71whitewesty » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:40 pm

There is more....but will have to wait. We are 1516 miles into our trip and now in Banff after making a loop from Whistler to Jasper then Banff and home in a few more days. Bus is fully loaded and running great. Maybe slightly anemic the full load and higher altitudes but running smooth. Our good friends we are traveling with in their 76 chevy high top van however is having rear end issues. Making a heck of a noise. Garage says it's the pinion bearing but to drive on cause they can't fix it. So at times there have been 8 of us in the bus carting around to different sight seeing highlights to save his rear end.
Anyway, I'll get to the details when I get back about the visit.

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asiab3
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Re: Hood River Placeholder (+ Oregon write-up!-ed)

Post by asiab3 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:09 pm

71whitewesty wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:40 pm
]…Maybe slightly anemic the full load and higher altitudes but running smooth
So what, 28 horsepower isn't enough for you?? :pirate: You still beat me up to Timberline Lodge…

…76 chevy high top van however is having rear end issues… 8 of us in the bus carting around to different sight seeing highlights to save his rear end.
Your Volkswagen is doing the work it was designed to do, and a few hundred pounds more… I think if cars have egos, yours might need a deflation after a trip like this!

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
119k miles with me.
296k miles on Earth.

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Re: Hood River Placeholder (+ Oregon write-up!-ed)

Post by 71whitewesty » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:10 am

Ok we are back from our trip and it's time to file my report from Colins visit.

So originally I had two good running buses that I was going to tune up and address a few relatively minor things. However, about a week before Colins visit, Bus 1 developed a heck of a knock in the engine. Strange knock because it would go away after about 30 seconds of running. I still haven't taken the engine apart to see just what it is but the engine is out of the bus and in my shop now. I will be tearing it down over the next couple of weeks to see what the deal is. In the mean time I ordered another 1600 dp long block from Headflow Masters. I know some had issues with his builds and even I had an issue with the first one right off the bat but sent it back to him and he rebuilt it again and it's been in Bus 2 working fantastic and now has about 27k miles on it. No leaks and has really been great. He has been good to me and so I remain loyal. The new long block gets shipped out today so I'm excited to get it and put it back in Bus 1. I also sent Volksbitz a german 34 pict 3 carb to rebuild for it and everything else is new on it, generator, muffler, intakes, even a new awesome powder coat thermostat. I hope to have it up and running in a week or so.
Back to Bus 2 and what we accomplished.
I had a nasty sounding clunk in my wipers of Bus 2. I figured it was just loose nuts on the shaft or something. I never even looked at it but sometimes it helps to have some help to get things done. So we took out the glove box and wiper arms and started to trouble shoot just where the clunk was coming from. The shafts were tight and event the sealing grommets looked ok to me, however Colin just happened to have a new set of grommets in his stash that I still owe him for that we used when we reinstalled it. So after more wiggling, pushing and pulling we took the whole wiper assembly out and started to take the motor apart as it seemed the play was in the motor. Well in the wiper motor there are a couple of gears. One is just a larger circular gear and one is a spiral (?) gear, not sure what you call it. But there is an adjustment on the gears to tighten up the play, it is like the adjustment on the steering box, a set screw and a locking nut. Mine didn't have the locking nut on it and so it worked itself loose over time. We made the adjustment and put it all back together, cleaned the shaft splines with a razor (I would not have known to clean the splines, they looked just smooth to me but cleaned up nicely). Put it all back together and bingo, works great and no more clunking ( had a small rain squall in Jasper and was able to test them out).
Second on the list were my brakes. They start dragging after a while and the pedal was right at the top with no play and I knew it just wasn't right. I was going to be all ready for Colin and have the bus jacked up and rear wheels off so we could address the brake issue efficiently but I didn't get to it before he arrived. Colin noticed a "crunchy" feel to the brake pedal so we took off the protective pan cover under the front of the bus and started trouble shooting the brake issue. Well a little grease here and a little there and bingo, the brake pedal wasn't returning all the way and therefore they would drag just a bit. But greasing up the pivot points in the pedal did the trick. Way easier than pulling the wheels off etc. Again I was about to head in the wrong direction and do a lot more work than necessary.
(side note, I did end up taking both rear drums off because there was a new funny noise and feeling coming from the brakes and I did have one of the clips fall off and was getting caught up in the drum. It was worn down in thickness to about half but I put it back on and it seems to be just fine now.)
So while we were down there greasing up the pivots in the brake linkage we also greased up the gas pedal linkage and then Colin noticed I was missing a shift bushing. I had no idea.... well he just happen to have one of those in his stash too! (I still owe him for it as well). Now it shifts with even more noticeable precision.
We also timed it as it was advanced a bit too much. It really is running so sweet now. Brakes are perfect again, wipers are quiet, all the linkage is thankful for the lube and my brain sucked up as much knowledge as it could for one day.
We also discussed pulling out the windshield to go after some rust... next year. Bus 2 looks pretty easy, Bus 1 will need some rust repair. I'll get a couple of windshields and another seal and be ready to go when next years date gets worked out.
Also got to take Cloe out for a spin and whoa, what a treat. No rattles, clunks, squeaks, doors shut so quietly. Interesting to feel the difference between the single port power band compared to the dual port. It's subtle but it there. I think the dual port had a bit more top end power but the single port seems to have great torque. (I might me making all that up but at least that's what I think I felt.) It's really cool to be able to drive one of these that is so well sorted out and not a camper with all the squeaky cabinets. I think it's about as close as you can get from driving one of these off the lot when it was brand new.
So another year of great info, teaching and dialing in the Bus (2) and I'm already looking forward to next years visit and hopefully by then I have two reliable and well running buses again.

Now just a quick update on things after the visit. I've put almost 4k miles on Bus 2 in just less than a month. Fully loaded with people, camping gear and bikes. Our Whistler/Jasper/Banff trip was 2,433 miles. I did one points adjustment mid way through the trip. At times we had 4 kids and 4 adults carting around to different hikes in the Bus. I had a throttle return spring break in Vancouver, BC but was able to bend up another coil and continue using the same spring, still working just fine. Otherwise just no issues at all. Bus 2 has really needed nothing in the last 3 years of use other than a few tweaks and general maintenance. I pulled it from a 15 year slumber in a field in eastern Washington and spent a winter sorting it out and it's turned out to be an amazing and solid bus. I've put a total of 28k on it and about 27 k on the Headflow Masters engine. So far it feels like it has lots of life left in it. I will continue to pile on the miles and see just how much more I can get out of it. I know the trips I do and the loads I take are taxing it pretty hard but it's taking it like a champ.
This was our 8th year of taking a good road trip with the kids and it is just an awesome experience to watch the kids grow up with the Bus and get the routine so dialed. They are true veterans now and I'll keep this up as long as I can get them in the Bus.

Thanks again Colin, your service is very much appreciated and helps to keep the dreams as well as the VW alive. =D>

I will have to add some pics but I only took two of the visit and one of them looks just like Colins photo.

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Re: Hood River Placeholder (+ Oregon write-up!-ed)

Post by 71whitewesty » Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:41 pm

Update:
In preparation for the new HFM long block, I've been tearing down Bus 1's engine. I think I just found the problem. This engine had a real loud banging, like a bad rod knock to my ears. Well I just found a 10mm fan shroud screw with washer in the intake of #4. Sorry for the lack of photo, but there it was all smoothed out and rounded off. It must have fell in there when I changed the intake boots the week before.....
Good news, I think the engine is probably fine, bad news is that the new long should arrive on Monday, Good News is that I'll have an extra motor.... it's actually all good news. I am happy to have extra long block and glad that I will most likely not have to tear into this one any further. :blackeye:

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Re: Hood River Placeholder (+ Oregon write-up!-ed)

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:00 pm

71whitewesty wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:41 pm
Update:
I preparation for the new HFM long block, I've been tearing down Bus 1's engine. I think I just found the problem. This engine had a real loud banging, like a bad rod knock to my ears. Well I just found a 10mm fan shroud screw with washer in the intake of #4. Sorry for the lack of photo, but there it was all smoothed out and rounded off. It must have fell in there when I changed the intake boots the week before.....
Good news, I think the engine is probably fine, bad news is that the new long should arrive on Monday, Good News is that I'll have an extra motor.... it's actually all good news. I am happy to have extra long block and glad that I will most likely not have to tear into isn't one any further. :blackeye:

Tell us more . . .

a) the fan shroud bolt (10mm bolt head with a 4mm shank like the tin screws?

b) is it likely that the fan shroud bolt had a washer? Did you rescue a washer as well as the bolt?

c) what did the actual smoothing out? Did the #4 intake valve smooth it out? If so, you need to assess the integrity of the valve sealing > make sure valve is closed (TDC #4) and fill intake port with gasoline. If it drains, pull the head.

d) now that you think you have caught the offender, do the symptoms make perfect sense (versus "hopeful" sense?)
Colin
(yes, a spare engine for you amongst three buses is a very good thing)
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,820 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,220 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,885 miles

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Re: Hood River Placeholder (+ Oregon write-up!-ed)

Post by 71whitewesty » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:38 am

Boy my editing is bad, excuse my mis typed words.
Yes it's the 10mm tin screw/bolt that holds the fan shroud on, the one that goes on the side of the shroud. The washer is still on it. Not sure exactly how it got so smooth but there seems to be a bit of grease on it and and it's like it went through a polisher. Threads, head and the tip of it are all nice and smoothed out. Looking into the intake I can see the backside of the valve and I see no damage at all. I will look closer and fill the port with gas to make sure.
This now makes sense to me because this engine is pretty new and should not be spinning a rod bearing so soon. The symptom happened after I changed out the intake. That 10mm screw was missing too but I thought it just rattled off and was lost....
Odd how the sound would go away after 20-30 seconds though and seem to run fine. Glad I didn't drive it much after I noticed it.
When we were turning it by hand we really couldn't tell what it was, it wasn't obvious that it was a rod bearing. End play checked out etc. but dang the video I played for Colin sure sounded bad. There was also metal flake in the oil. It looked worse when I first drained it but not as bad when I showed it to Colin.
So I'm tempted to just put this back together and stick it back in Bus 1. But the HFM long block will have a warranty for the first year and I better make sure that one is good before it runs out. So I will probably put the HFM engine in it. :scratch:

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Re: Hood River Placeholder (+ Oregon write-up!-ed)

Post by 71whitewesty » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:37 am

Ps. I know someone explained the new process for posting photos but I can't seem to find it. Anyone care to point me in the right direction? Thanks.

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Re: Hood River Placeholder (+ Oregon write-up!-ed)

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:16 am

71whitewesty wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:37 am
Ps. I know someone explained the new process for posting photos but I can't seem to find it. Anyone care to point me in the right direction? Thanks.
Beats me. I don't use our gallery. I think it is easy, though. Ask Zabo.

Do you really think that bolt was the cause of those noises? Where in "the intake" did you find it?
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,820 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,220 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,885 miles

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Re: Hood River Placeholder (+ Oregon write-up!-ed)

Post by 71whitewesty » Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:55 pm

I do. It was one cylinder and the bolt was taking a beating. I probably drove 150 miles with it in there but only made noises the last 20 miles. But if you remember in the video that the sound would go away after about 20 seconds. That is strange and I can't really say exactly what was banging on what.
It was sitting in the lowest part of the intake, right next to the valve guide and free to move around as it pleased. Right where it should be if it dropped into the intake port.

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Re: Hood River Placeholder (+ Oregon write-up!-ed)

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:51 pm

71whitewesty wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:55 pm
I do. It was one cylinder and the bolt was taking a beating. I probably drove 150 miles with it in there but only made noises the last 20 miles. But if you remember in the video that the sound would go away after about 20 seconds. That is strange and I can't really say exactly what was banging on what.
It was sitting in the lowest part of the intake, right next to the valve guide and free to move around as it pleased. Right where it should be if it dropped into the intake port.
That should have sucked right into the cylinder, especially with a dual port. Count me surprised.
I await your gasoline test in the port with bated breath.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,820 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,220 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,885 miles

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asiab3
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Re: Hood River Placeholder (+ Oregon write-up!-ed)

Post by asiab3 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:16 pm

The screw could have become stuck in between the valve and seat, POSSIBLY causing combustion backfires up the intake, (the "bangs" you heard.) But that same event would reduce compression to the point of non-combustion…

My hypothesis? It is more likely that the screw held the valve open, which eliminated compression in that cylinder and rendered it non-contributing. In this case, the clattery sounds you heard would be the valve adjuster slamming into the valve tip which was held open near full lift. My problem with this, is that it doesn't necessarily explain the metal flake in the oil, unless the lack of valve spring pressure on the lifter was causing some weird slapping interplay between the cam lobe and lifter. Then you would get a light gold flake in the oil from the surface hardening flakes. Perhaps you had both. The frequency of the sound appears to be at half crankshaft speed, so I would suspect a valve-train related culprit here.

--

According to a cursory internet search, a stock 1600 cam has .304" of lift, so the valves would be opening .334" after rocker arm multiplication. The head of a 10mm bolt is .390 inches, so the bolt wouldn't actually be able to enter the combustion chamber unless something whacky happened with the geometry or intake.

Can you borrow a borescope to check out the back sides of the intake valves on that side of the engine while rotating the crank pulley until each valve is fully open? I would look for evidence of collisions.. The gas test is probably quicker and cheaper though, and if it holds, I would put it back together and stick it in Bus 3. :pirate:

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
119k miles with me.
296k miles on Earth.

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Re: Hood River Placeholder (+ Oregon write-up!-ed)

Post by 71whitewesty » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:19 pm

Ok I did the gas test but didn't make 100% sure if was closed. Just looked like it and I poured some gas down there. It drained out. Not real fast but it did drain. Then I took my flashlight and peered into the intake and slowly turned the crank to watch the valve go up and down. I see no damage at all. I can't see the actual seating area but no nicks or anything at all.
I like the idea of it not quite fitting through the opening. Eventually it would have as it wore down. From the little I can see of the top of the piston, that looks fine too.
I don't get the metal flake either. It seems this wouldn't do that. Maybe the oil wasn't as bad as I thought? :cyclopsani:

To be 100% I should pull the head I suppose.

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