Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Indiana

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asiab3
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Indiana

Post by asiab3 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:09 pm

Does this list sound complete? I've got to be forgetting something…

- remove engine seal and rear tins
- remove fan screen if equipped (timing scale comes with it, right?)
- remove belt
- three bolts to remove fan from hub. (Do. Not. Disassemble. Fan.) [Also might be 12pt.] {reinstall torque is 14 ft. lb.}
- 3? 4? 5? bolts from the shroud into the case to remove. Should be four, at the 2, 4, 7, and 10 o'clock positions. Actually, they should be nuts on studs in the case…
- thermostat cable? disconnect please. The fan shroud is the adjustment end right? Mark it if it is…
- disconnect shroud if it's connected to the heat exchangers and any other exhaust pieces.
- I don't remember if the oil cooler tin is attached to the shroud or cooler, but you may have to remove it. Anybody?
- There is an alternator elbow/boot in there somewhere that I can't recall what to do with.

Shroud should then tilt forward and reveal whatever we've forgotten! :blackeye:

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
142k miles with me.
319k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Indiana

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:12 am

asiab3 wrote:Does this list sound complete? I've got to be forgetting something…

- remove engine seal and rear tins
- remove fan screen if equipped (timing scale comes with it, right?)
- remove belt
- three bolts to remove fan from hub. (Do. Not. Disassemble. Fan.) [Also might be 12pt.] {reinstall torque is 14 ft. lb.}
- 3? 4? 5? bolts from the shroud into the case to remove. Should be four, at the 2, 4, 7, and 10 o'clock positions. Actually, they should be nuts on studs in the case…
- thermostat cable? disconnect please. The fan shroud is the adjustment end right? Mark it if it is…
- disconnect shroud if it's connected to the heat exchangers and any other exhaust pieces.
- I don't remember if the oil cooler tin is attached to the shroud or cooler, but you may have to remove it. Anybody?
- There is an alternator elbow/boot in there somewhere that I can't recall what to do with.

Shroud should then tilt forward and reveal whatever we've forgotten! :blackeye:

Robbie
I should do a write-up in the Engine Forum.

You need to also:
* remove the shroud-to-heat exchanger duct covers. The screws face downward.
The fan housing ducts fit pretty tightly into the stock exchangers on fresh engines, you will need to bend the exchangers to allow the fan housing to back off the four case studs.

*remove the alternator belt adjustment bracket from the right exchanger
*remove the oil cooler bracket from the left side of the fan housing
*be prepared to catch the heater fresh air pipes which stick up through the upper cylinder covers

But why take the fan housing off before it is absolutely dictated? Clean the engine dry. Start engine. When oil shows, shut it off. Look around. I use a mirror and my favorite 673 septillion candlepower flashlight/carcass heater to get a serious view. You can SEE the oil cooler seals from under the bus, and you can SEE the fan hub coming out of the rear main seal. So if you clean first, then run briefly, then looklook, you should be able to narrow down the source of these damn pesky unnecessary sloppy leaks.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Indiana

Post by Squeebles » Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:23 pm

Thanks guys, for taking the time to post on this, very helpful. I shall examine with the mirror and take it from there! Other than that, bus drives great.
1977 VW Bus, 2.0 FI

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Indiana

Post by Squeebles » Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:04 pm

Good news, I have found the source of the leak!

It is an aftermarket oil pump. When the rebuilder had the engine for the second time (due to excessive endplay, low oil pressure and many oil leaks after their first attempt), they found some scoring inside the original T4 pump. After reading up on this a bit, I chose this pump as a replacement:
http://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDet ... tCode=1829

Has anybody else installed one of these and had experiences, good or bad?

They did install a gasket, but oil just pours out of the upper left side of the housing. They used an excessive amount of sealant as well, I am thinking maybe this is the problem - that they used both. The leak might also be why it takes about 4-5 seconds after engine start for oil pressure light to turn off. That seems too long to me.
I am done for today but tomorrow will remove it and see what I find out.

Sorry for no pics. Camera on my phone is not working.
1977 VW Bus, 2.0 FI

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Indiana

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:30 am

Squeebles wrote:Good news, I have found the source of the leak!

It is an aftermarket oil pump. When the rebuilder had the engine for the second time (due to excessive endplay, low oil pressure and many oil leaks after their first attempt), they found some scoring inside the original T4 pump. After reading up on this a bit, I chose this pump as a replacement:
http://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDet ... tCode=1829

Has anybody else installed one of these and had experiences, good or bad?

They did install a gasket, but oil just pours out of the upper left side of the housing. They used an excessive amount of sealant as well, I am thinking maybe this is the problem - that they used both. The leak might also be why it takes about 4-5 seconds after engine start for oil pressure light to turn off. That seems too long to me.
I am done for today but tomorrow will remove it and see what I find out.

Sorry for no pics. Camera on my phone is not working.
Get the original Type 4 pump back. You own it, it's yours, it is the superior engineering and scoring can be cleaned up. Meanwhile, see if you can get this current pump working without gushing. If it is cast iron, it does not expand with the case as the engine warms up. Some aftermarket pumps also are poorly lined up with the "in" and the "out" drillings. Sorry about your continued detours from getting the job done right the first time.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

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Bleyseng
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Indiana

Post by Bleyseng » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:53 pm

Looks to be aluminum but no sealant should be used on the pump cover to pump, just the gasket. Make sure the cover is dead flat before installing.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Indiana

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:00 pm

Bleyseng wrote:Looks to be aluminum but no sealant should be used on the pump cover to pump, just the gasket. Make sure the cover is dead flat before installing.
"Slips right in!" they crow in their ad copy. I would rather have to tap . . . :blackeye:
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Indiana

Post by Squeebles » Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:18 am

I do have the OG pump, but the shop misplaced/lost the studs for mounting. And I just wanted this fixed. So I installed the CB pump,, which does actually seem to be of decent quality and made of aluminum. I used anaerobic sealant, no gaskets and all is good.
Doesn't leak a drop and thanks to the info here was able to do it without dropping the engine again. So now it's party time.
1977 VW Bus, 2.0 FI

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Indiana

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:29 am

Squeebles wrote:So now it's party time.
Party on . . . .

Image
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

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