Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Hood River

Moderators: Amskeptic, Sluggo

User avatar
Bleyseng
IAC Addict!
Location: Seattle again
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Hood River

Post by Bleyseng » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:05 pm

Only 60mph, Bah drive it around 70mph as they were designed to do. I my trip about Europe all the buses I saw were blasting along at 120 to 130 kph just to keep up with traffic and avoid being rear ended by faster cars.
If it's built right it will last just fine but if the head rebuilder reused valves and old springs then this is what can happen.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

User avatar
jimbear
Getting Hooked!
Location: Athens, GA
Status: Offline

Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Hood River

Post by jimbear » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:11 am

Bleyseng wrote:Only 60mph, Bah drive it around 70mph as they were designed to do.
When I got my first bus in '90 (A '72 w/dual Web's and 79k miles!) and went out with my dad for a maiden voyage he chided me and told me to stop driving like a granny, "Drive it like it's supposed to be driven." I believe what he was saying was, get the RPM's up before shifting ("Don't lug it!) and get it up to 65 or 70 where it should be. I have not slowed down since.
'74 Hardtop Westy
Pretty much stock engine setup

Boxcar
Addicted!
Location: Itinerant Fledgling
Status: Offline

Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Hood River

Post by Boxcar » Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:55 pm

First I have lernt' of the old weld a valve to the stem.

This was for? Stellite valve?

Once upon a time I worked with Turbine Blade metallurgy. Vast subject...Grain Grooming(Direct Solidification)Single Crystal Casting..probably 60s tech.
Point is,it seems crazy to weld,WELD!
stems to a valve surface for IC application, aircooled on top...More to pile in the much I did not know possible file.
Still I love hearing about what was tried in a mass produced application.
I guess cost is a driver for all levels of quality..
Oh back to the mash yer throttle part of the heartbreak postmortem.
Personally I LIKE hearing the HAM heads move some air...but I keep it subsonic (like national 55 in 1975,my auto westy mfg.yr.) unless there is food,money,or women waiting..so that=rarely.
My unsolicited 2¢
1975 003 Auto Westy L90D

repair!!!!aug2015
Jan/16 Bumped mixture a few notches richer. finally developing HP.


1.8L/LJet/Pertron DVDA+PertronixCompufire 42/36Ham Heads/AA 93mm pistons/barrels.Porsc.Swiv.Adjusters/CromoSteel pushrds/ Web 9550Cam/55cc chmbr.,035 squish,8.6:1CR/German Supply VWCanadaReman Rods/Schadek 26mmPump/vdo dualOP8/10#low sender/Quart Deep Sump
Backdate Htr bxs,reflanged 914 4into1. Two and three eighths inch collector,magniflow*muffler

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Hood River

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:51 am

Boxcar wrote: Point is,it seems crazy to weld,WELD! stems to a valve surface for IC application, aircooled on top...
They were desperate. Sodium-cooled valves were the next effort. They were learning as they went. Emission limits took the fun out of it, now they were begging their little engines not to melt in the face of consumers in a hurry and exhaust heat. The welded valves (correct me if I am wrong) were to bridge two disparate requirements
a) extremely hard-wearing chromed? stem surfaces/material)
b) heat resistant but still needed ductility at the valve head.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

71whitewesty
Getting Hooked!
Status: Offline

Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Hood River

Post by 71whitewesty » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:11 am

I thought I'd get some pictures of the carnage up here. I didn't get to do a full forensic on this because I just wanted to get the rebuild going asap.
In response to a few of the comments, thank you, I always appreciate hearing from others experiences.
I hear you on mashing the throttle. I would say I mash it plenty. I drive this bus a lot and take long trips in it at a moments notice. Although I do try and take care of it so it'll go the distance, I keep the rpms up in it.
I'm sure it was hot as it was the end of a 6 hour drive that day. No hills when it blew, just freeway and probably 62 mph. It had been running sooo well, wasn't low on oil and really no reason that I can attribute the problem to. I lean toward thinking it was a freak break or just cheap parts.
I don't know the type of heads used when I had it rebuilt. Someone might recognize the logo in the photo. No VW stamps on it though. Heads and valves had 32,000 miles on them just like the rest of the rebuild.
The engine is in the shop now being rebuilt, so this may be water under the bridge but if anyone cares to comment on anything, feel free.
Meanwhile, I have the original, who knows how many miles are on it engine in the bus now and we made it to our remote campsite over the weekend, a 6 hour round trip with lots of hills in between and it seemed to do just fine.

The first tow in over 5 years of owning this bus.

Image

This is what it looked like the morning after the tow.

Image

Ouch...

Image

Oh my aching head...

Image

Image

It was a clean break. Can anyone tell me what heads these are?

Image

First sign of the problem. (other than it wouldn't run...)

Image

It was such a whirl wind of VW engines that I didn't get many photos of it all. I'm not sure how this could have been avoided but hoping for better luck on the next one.

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Hood River

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:13 am

71whitewesty wrote:I thought I'd get some pictures of the carnage up here.
I'm not sure how this could have been avoided but hoping for better luck on the next one.
That was tough to view.

T
Ha!, I was *&assuming* that it was #3. That is # 4 that failed.

Changes the calculus a bit.

A #4 failure is more likely caused by a lurking metallugical failure for the heck of it, rather than operator error/stress. Your head looks like was it running cool and happy, #3 exhaust valve looked perfect. Could not see manufacturer of head. Can you research history enough to find who did the heads? We might suspect that they were cheaper than they should have been.

When you do your own overhauls, the valves should be inspected for the merest scratches or nicks, just like connecting rods. Scratches or nicks must be smoothed out to reduce fracture potential.

Man, so the intake push rod popped out when the intake valve got stuck open by shrapnel.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

User avatar
whc03grady
IAC Addict!
Location: Livingston Montana
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Hood River

Post by whc03grady » Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:22 am

Cursory research says they are Autolinea heads from Brazil. (Google "vw head g01".)
Ludwig--1974 Westfalia, 2.0L (GD035193), Solex 34PDSIT-2/3 carburetors.
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com

71whitewesty
Getting Hooked!
Status: Offline

Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Hood River

Post by 71whitewesty » Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:01 am

I believe you are correct on the G01 heads by Autolinea. I just looked at a bunch of google images and they do appear to be the same ones that I have, or at least the same logo.
Colin, thanks for the reassurance that it's possible that it's a metallurgical/cheap part/freak failure. I am still crossing my fingers that it will last longer on the next go around.
And by the way, the motor we tuned up is now in the primary driver and is running better than ever. The pitter of the exhaust has gone away completely. I did put on a new vacuum hose on the retard canister and it now has a tight, air leak free fit. We will be taking it on another extended trip this weekend with a good 13-14 hours of driving round trip. I don't see why it wouldn't make it but it's going to be work out.

Jivermo
IAC Addict!
Status: Offline

Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Hood River

Post by Jivermo » Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:28 pm

Painful pics.

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Hood River

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:15 pm

I do *not* trust Autolinea heads.

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=3415#p52732


Image
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

71whitewesty
Getting Hooked!
Status: Offline

Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Hood River

Post by 71whitewesty » Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:27 am

Well I can't say I'm such a fan of Autolinea either. Messed up an otherwise perfectly good motor. I remember reading that post but didn't correlate that I had the same heads....

I just picked up the rebuilt long block yesterday and am in the process of putting the externals on. Spent too much time trying to clean and repaint the tin only to get sub-par results. I really suck at painting things, glad it's only tin.
I checked to see what heads they put on this time and it seems there is no logo or number at all on these heads. I can't help but think that no one wants to lay claim to these heads and that's not a good sign. The castings actually look ok to my untrained eye but I couldn't tell you about the valves in it, I guess they look fine too. Anyone know what the logo less heads are? They are new and not rebuilt.

The old motor that I temporarily swapped back into the bus has been running really well. Leaving a drop or two of oil here and there but not burning it at all. I've put over 1,000 miles of long, hot driving with hills and no problems so far. I should have this new one in it early next week. I have another 700-800 miles to put on the old one this weekend thought before I'll have time for the swap.
All I can say is that old engine has a lot of miles on it. Really no idea how many but if the PO was close on their estimate, it's well over 100,000 on it so far. It has VW heads etc and I think the quality of the parts must be very good.
I'll post up some pics soon.

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Hood River

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:16 pm

71whitewesty wrote: The old motor that I temporarily swapped back into the bus has been running really well.
All I can say is that old engine has a lot of miles on it. Really no idea how many but if the PO was close on their estimate, it's well over 100,000 on it so far. It has VW heads etc and I think the quality of the parts must be very good.
I'll post up some pics soon.
Keep it in there. My used Yuma AZ original VW heads on Chloe are happy with totally unknown miles on them, I have done two cross-country blasts (one of them was a scorcher Death Valley In July) with them now. They have VW logo valves, so I trust them as long as I keep the engine cool and lubricated. The heads that came with Chloe have been repaired with brand new seats and exhaust valves, but guess what? That's right. Yuma heads get to stay and enjoy themselves as long as they want to . . .
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

Post Reply