CIS Fuel Injection on a Type 4

Carbs & F.I.

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Sluggo
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CIS Fuel Injection on a Type 4

Post by Sluggo » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:09 pm

Bottomend & I are entertaining the idea of installing a CIS system in my Bus. The missing factor is the correct Air Flow controller. I guess there is just one you can use in a Bus.

Any thoughts on this? Anyone ever done it?
:vwgauge420:

1977 Bus with Sunroof - "Lucky '77"
2000cc Type IV w/Dual Weber 36s,
Aircooled.net SVDA w/Compufire,
Redline Weber Fuel Pump,
Holley Regulator,
Half Ass Brush & Roller Rustoleum Paint Job,
Incomplete Custom Interior,
Dual Batteries,
Crunched Slider Door.
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chitwnvw
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Post by chitwnvw » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:41 pm

I'm not going to help...but what's a CIS system?

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Sluggo
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Post by Sluggo » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:51 pm

chitwnvw wrote:I'm not going to help...but what's a CIS system?
CIS = Constant Injection System

Instead of a timed burst at each cylinder just before firing like most F.I. systems. CIS constantly sends a small amount of fuel which is just right by the time the cylinder fires. It's not a complete or even perfectly accurate description. But that's how I understand it. I'll be borrowing Bottomends Bosch F.I. manual and reading up on it.

This is from my shoptalk thread.
Piledriver wrote:Just checked out your forums, cool.

Just FYI, I don't run Webers anymore---Not for a couple of years.

I put stock 2.0 bus L-Jet hardware (manifolds and such) and run CIS in my 914.
(It's actually a hacked CIS-E airmeter off a Audi 4000S, using a 5v reg and a potentiometer for a "brain", but I don't want to scare you off...)

A bus should be a piece of cake, as the air cleaner mount is perfect for mounting a CIS airmeter...
It looks like a good option.
:vwgauge420:

1977 Bus with Sunroof - "Lucky '77"
2000cc Type IV w/Dual Weber 36s,
Aircooled.net SVDA w/Compufire,
Redline Weber Fuel Pump,
Holley Regulator,
Half Ass Brush & Roller Rustoleum Paint Job,
Incomplete Custom Interior,
Dual Batteries,
Crunched Slider Door.
------------------------------------------------------

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chitwnvw
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Post by chitwnvw » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:20 pm

I'm am getting bummed on dual carbs and the linkage woes. I'll be driving down Lake Shore Drive, all happy and good, then suddenly I'm idling at 2500+ rpms. Pull over to check it out and right away there's a cop with his spot light on me. No problem here officer.

...then there's the oil drips. I was very careful to seal this pup up good. WTF.

Anyway, keep us posted, maybe FI is the answer.

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Sluggo
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Post by Sluggo » Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:17 am

I just got a PM from Piledriver. He said to pull the entire system from an Audi 4000S or VW Fox. And use the manifolds for a D or L Jet. Have to fabricate fuel lines and injector holders. That's no big deal.
:vwgauge420:

1977 Bus with Sunroof - "Lucky '77"
2000cc Type IV w/Dual Weber 36s,
Aircooled.net SVDA w/Compufire,
Redline Weber Fuel Pump,
Holley Regulator,
Half Ass Brush & Roller Rustoleum Paint Job,
Incomplete Custom Interior,
Dual Batteries,
Crunched Slider Door.
------------------------------------------------------

vdubyah73
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Post by vdubyah73 » Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:50 am

chitwnvw wrote:I'm am getting bummed on dual carbs and the linkage woes. I'll be driving down Lake Shore Drive, all happy and good, then suddenly I'm idling at 2500+ rpms.
Cji did you put grease in the ball sockets at the ends of the hex bars. Oil the hiem joints too. Try an extra return spring from the middle throttle linkage arm to your heater assist mount. You can get a spring at the hardware store, get a medium strong one, if it's to strong just stretch it a little.

Bill

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spiffy
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Post by spiffy » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:59 am

Sounds like an awesome project!

Anyone know what direct port injection is?
78 Riviera "Spiffy"
67 Riviera "Bill"

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:27 am

spiffy wrote:Anyone know what direct port injection is?
Yep. That is American Advertising-Speak for their cars finally getting what everyone else always had.
It was their way of distinguishing between that stupid throttle-body injection that never worked half as well, and their belatedly late realization that they should put the injectors at the intakes where VW had them when they introduced D-Jet in 1968!

There is now Direct Injection on the drawing board where they will inject fuel immediately into the combustion chamber. . . we'll see how that pans out.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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spiffy
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Post by spiffy » Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:24 pm

Cool!

Thanks for the explanation. How does CIS measure the air and adjust the fuel amount? How do you adjust it? (along the lines of an AFM-type device?)
78 Riviera "Spiffy"
67 Riviera "Bill"

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dingo
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Post by dingo » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:31 pm

How does CIS measure the air and adjust the fuel amount? How do you adjust it? (along the lines of an AFM-type device?)
The flow of intake air raises a metal disc (sort of like the flap in AFM)
As the metal disc moves on one end of a see-saw..on the other end, the movement alters fuel pressure inside a 'fuel regulator/distributor' gizmo. As the fuel pressure in the system is raised or lowered so more or less fuel is injected to the ports. CIS=K=Konstant= injectors are constantly open and metering more or less depending on the fuel pressure.
'71 Kombi, 1600 dp

';78 Tranzporter 2L

" Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches."

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:24 pm

As per above and adjustment of the mixture is effected by changing the fulcrum between the big disk and the injector plungers. You use a long skinny 3mm allen wrench that raises or lowers the fulcrum. There is a tiny hole for this purpose. CCW leans it out.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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vwlover77
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Post by vwlover77 » Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:22 pm

Amskeptic wrote:There is now Direct Injection on the drawing board where they will inject fuel immediately into the combustion chamber. . . we'll see how that pans out.
It's already available (in Europe anyway)....

09 September 2005
VOLKSWAGEN ENGINE CAMPAIGN AT FRANKFURT MOTOR SHOW

- New petrol engines for the Golf and Touran with reduced consumption and increased performance

WOLFSBURG, Germany - “A substantial reduction in consumption together with an equally substantial increase in performance” – the ideal petrol engine was just a dream until now.

At the Frankfurt International Motor Show, Volkswagen will present a new generation of engines that meets both of these requirements. The formula: direct injection (FSI) plus turbocharger and compressor. This highly efficient combination of technology will make its debut in the new Golf GT. Key data: 170 hp, 7.2 litres consumption. A 140-hp version will then follow in the Touran.

Golf GT with 125-kW Twincharger: This dual-turbocharged FSI engine – the Twincharger – combines the advantages of a turbo diesel with those of a petrol engine. A mechanical compressor as well as a turbocharger generate maximum power and torque combined with low consumption values. Boasting a mere 1.4 litres, the engine develops 125 kW / 170 hp and a maximum torque of 240 Newton metres (from 1,750 rpm). This engine allows the Golf GT to reach a top speed of 220 km/h. It races to the 100-km/h mark in just 7.9 seconds.

The new “Twincharger” is an impressive example of how Volkswagen’s FSI technology (direct petrol injection) can be developed further to provide driving fun and improve efficiency. The powerful boost provided by the compressor in the low rev ranges is amazing. At higher rev ranges, the turbocharger then takes over supercharging. The Twincharger achieves the torque development of a large naturally aspirated engine, but with considerably lower consumption values.
Don

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:44 pm

vwlover77 wrote:It's already available (in Europe anyway)....
It races to the 100-km/h mark in just 7.9 seconds.
0-62mph in 7.9 seconds is . . . . mellow by our standards, but hey.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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spiffy
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Post by spiffy » Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:17 pm

Thanks for the explanation fellas...that makes good sense to me now.
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67 Riviera "Bill"

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dingo
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Post by dingo » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:56 pm

Bottomend & I are entertaining the idea of installing a CIS system in my Bus. The missing factor is the correct Air Flow controller. I guess there is just one you can use in a Bus.

Any thoughts on this? Anyone ever done it?
what is the perceived advantage of CIS in your BUs, as opposed to the obvious L-jet ? Im not trying to debate, but just rather curious why the choice of CIS.
'71 Kombi, 1600 dp

';78 Tranzporter 2L

" Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches."

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