Cold Start Valve

Carbs & F.I.

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Mulcheese
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by Mulcheese » Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:53 pm

After a week of soaking and daily tests the CSV will not open and let anything through. As a result I decided to take Slowlanes offer and have him send me a CSV he had. I bench tested the promptly delivered part and it worked as intended. I installed it this morning. This was a great opportunity as the temps were below 30*. With the battery freshly charged and some coffee on me I pulled the trigger and................ BAM!!!! It fired up on the first compression! Never have I had this happen under these conditions, ever. I have owned this van for over 10 years and I have learned to avoid this situation as I figured it was pointless.

Yes this is not an essential part for most of you but here in Minnesota it is very handy. It seems the CSV is well liked in my world.

Thanks Slowlane
"attending to things in the moment with curiosity and acceptance."
____________________
82 Vanagon Westy - aka: Honey Badger - "cause she just dont give a ...."

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SlowLane
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by SlowLane » Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:42 pm

Sweet. Glad it worked for you.
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

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energyturtle
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by energyturtle » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:12 am

Awesome!

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Amskeptic
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:59 am

Mulcheese wrote: CSV worked as intended.
It fired up on the first compression!
Never have I had this happen for over 10 years
Thanks Slowlane
Welcome to the wonderful world of a correctly functioning Volkswagen.
Colin

(Slowlane's a gem)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 121,400 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 92,435 miles

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SlowLane
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by SlowLane » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:13 am

A caveat on the CSV there, Mulcheese: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewto ... 2f1f864f29

Seems that a leaky CSV can be the cause of an engine fire.

I don't think the one I sent you is faulty, since it held air pressure exceeding 36 psi and wasn't wiggly in its metal shroud, but it's something to keep an eye on, considering that that part was in my parts bin for several years, and that it is now being subjected to temperatures much colder than it had seen in all that time. Rubber o-rings don't mix well with sub-zero temperatures. Just ask NASA. #-o
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

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Mulcheese
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by Mulcheese » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:47 pm

In the procees of testing mine I did notice fluid leaking out between the flange and plastic injector when I supplied pressure. I think with all the cleaning I did the old corroded o-rings finally gave way of their seal and started to leak. Another check against using the old one. Looks like I could have prevented a possible fire.

Again SlowLane thanks for the CSV.
"attending to things in the moment with curiosity and acceptance."
____________________
82 Vanagon Westy - aka: Honey Badger - "cause she just dont give a ...."

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Amskeptic
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:47 pm

SlowLane wrote:A caveat on the CSV there, Mulcheese: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewto ... 2f1f864f29

Seems that a leaky CSV can be the cause of an engine fire.
That thread is striking me as reckless and sloppy in its attributions . . . For example, this notion that an injector that is loose in the metal sleeve that bolts to the intake plenum could spray fuel around the distributor? Never. It is a one piece unit from fuel hose to injector tip, no fuel leak potential there. Damaged hoses, heck yeah.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 121,400 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 92,435 miles

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asiab3
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by asiab3 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:19 pm

Amskeptic wrote: That thread is striking me as reckless and sloppy in its attributions . . . For example, this notion that an injector that is loose in the metal sleeve that bolts to the intake plenum could spray fuel around the distributor? Never. It is a one piece unit from fuel hose to injector tip, no fuel leak potential there. Damaged hoses, heck yeah.
Colin
Plus full manifold vacuum is not exactly encouraging fuel to leak anywhere, even with a crack or break………
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:30 pm

asiab3 wrote:
Amskeptic wrote: That thread is striking me as reckless and sloppy in its attributions . . . For example, this notion that an injector that is loose in the metal sleeve that bolts to the intake plenum could spray fuel around the distributor? Never. It is a one piece unit from fuel hose to injector tip, no fuel leak potential there. Damaged hoses, heck yeah.
Colin
Plus full manifold vacuum is not exactly encouraging fuel to leak anywhere, even with a crack or break………
See, that there is a point too, I think.

What do you think caused aerosurfer's fire?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 121,400 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 92,435 miles

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asiab3
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by asiab3 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:34 pm

Amskeptic wrote: What do you think caused aerosurfer's fire?
Over-tightening the hose clamps can crack the blue plastic CSV fuel connectors. It's easy to get caught up in the gorilla-fisting of hose clamps when many of the 7mm lines are metal and can take the force. That's my theory… He's even got hose clamps clamped on the intake runner boots, which don't need them. Lots going on on those poor plastic connectors, which no doubt get terrible yanks and tugs like carburetor nipples and wiring connectors all over the globe……

Don guessed that the "CSV came "un crimped" and just simply gave up the ghost. a tell tale sign is if the connector or T section where fuel passes through was wiggly." My spare on the bench here has about .002" of wiggle to it, and I wouldn't be surprised if the two thoughts were related.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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SlowLane
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by SlowLane » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:56 am

Amskeptic wrote:
Moi wrote: Seems that a leaky CSV can be the cause of an engine fire.
That thread is striking me as reckless and sloppy in its attributions . . . For example, this notion that an injector that is loose in the metal sleeve that bolts to the intake plenum could spray fuel around the distributor? Never. It is a one piece unit from fuel hose to injector tip, no fuel leak potential there. Damaged hoses, heck yeah.
Colin
'kay. Well, perhaps there should have been a secondary caveat about the veracity of the source.

My favorite theory is that he was using Gates Barricade J30R14 hose, which implies that he was using a 5/16" hose, of which I've posted my opinion before and is why I keep bleating on about the most-excellently-fitting Cohline 7.3 mm hose.

On the topic of rattly, wiggly CSVs, I believe the spare I have left is in just such a state. I'll see if I can dig it out and induce a leak with my trusty bicycle pump. If I can, then it's dissection time. :geek:
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

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Randy in Maine
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by Randy in Maine » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:35 am

From Gates.......General-purpose 30R7 hose cannot handle the high pressures generated in a fuel injection system.
Also, today’s complex and aggressive fuel blends can damage standard rubber compounds found in 30R7
hose. The solution for fuel injection applications is Barricade Fuel Injection hose.

I don't know what "R9" is.
79 VW Bus

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SlowLane
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by SlowLane » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:14 pm

J30R9 is the SAE standard for low-permeation fuel injection hose specifically designed to address the aggressively corrosive properties of modern fuel formulations (Gates Barricade being but one example which meets the R9 standard). It is an occasional topic of lively debate over on TheSamba, perhaps more so on the Vanagon forum than on the Bay forum..

J30R14 is, IIRC, a standard for hose which can safely be immersed in gasoline, suitable for modern in-tank fuel pump applications. It wouldn't necessarily be "superior" to R9 for hose runs and fittings outside of the immersed application.

My amateurish reading of the J30R9 numbers suggests that Cohline 2240 hose exceeds the permeation requirements of that standard. And more importantly (to me, anyways), it comes in metric sizes more suitable to our vehicles than the inch-only sizes that J30R9 hose is commonly available in.

*Edit* - turns out my understanding of the 30R number was wrong. 30R9 is for "medium pressure" applications like our FI systems, but does not imply low-permeation. R14 is for low-pressure applications but with low-permeation characteristics. The Gates Barricade is a high-pressure low-permeation hose that exceeds the 30R14 specification.
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

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Amskeptic
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:12 am

SlowLane wrote:J30R9 is the SAE standard for low-permeation fuel injection hose specifically designed to address the aggressively corrosive properties of modern fuel formulations (Gates Barricade being but one example which meets the R9 standard). It is an occasional topic of lively debate over on TheSamba, perhaps more so on the Vanagon forum than on the Bay forum..

J30R14 is, IIRC, a standard for hose which can safely be immersed in gasoline, suitable for modern in-tank fuel pump applications. It wouldn't necessarily be "superior" to R9 for hose runs and fittings outside of the immersed application.

My amateurish reading of the J30R9 numbers suggests that Cohline 2240 hose exceeds the permeation requirements of that standard. And more importantly (to me, anyways), it comes in metric sizes more suitable to our vehicles than the inch-only sizes that J30R9 hose is commonly available in.
It all gets me dizzy. I get the correct size 7.3mm Choline for the FI vehicles, and I get the 5mm Choline from our fine parts purveyors and I drive. End o story. I also keep an eye on my fuel systems.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 121,400 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 92,435 miles

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SlowLane
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by SlowLane » Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:22 am

Amskeptic wrote:It all gets me dizzy.
Then p'raps you might want to switch to the low-permeation stuff to reduce the fumes. :drunken:
Or back off on the GumOut... :cyclopsani:
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

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