Cold Start Valve

Carbs & F.I.

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Mulcheese
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Cold Start Valve

Post by Mulcheese » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:21 am

I am trying to get my cold start valve to function. I pulled it as it receives power but is clogged. After trying carb cleaner for a day and submerging it no luck. I have come to realize that I may have "flooded" it as a result of submerging it. Is the injector a sealed unit? Is the metal flange incorporated into the construction or is it just for mounting to the intake?

I am thinking of seperating the blue plastic from the metal flalngge. Bad idea?????

For now I will let it dry out and try again tomorrow.
"attending to things in the moment with curiosity and acceptance."
____________________
82 Vanagon Westy - aka: Honey Badger - "cause she just dont give a ...."

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SlowLane
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by SlowLane » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:41 am

Mulcheese wrote:I am thinking of separating the blue plastic from the metal flange.

I've thought of doing that myself on occasion. Let us know how it goes, eh?
Bad idea?????
If you haven't got a spare, probably. But if yours is truly fubar, then there's no harm in trying. Except then you have to figure out how to block off that hole in your plenum.

FWIW, the engine ought to start when cold(ish) without a CSV. It just takes a lot more cranking to catch. 'Course, I'm talking California cold(ish).
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

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Randy in Maine
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by Randy in Maine » Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:19 pm

If it were my $100 cold start valve I would send it off to wwww.cruzinperformance.com and have Rich try to get it to work.

Even a piece of duct tape and some additional fuel line would get you through until it comes back from Michigan.
79 VW Bus

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Mulcheese
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by Mulcheese » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:25 pm

Im in no hurry. The van is still in its winter hibernation but I do want to get it out soon. Your right Slowlane it will start without as that is what I have been doing for, to my best estimate, the last decade. I believe that it has never worked from the day I bought it. I wish I had a good understanding of the construction so that I am aware of what is there before I decide to break in. Still working at it with the carb cleaner. Maybe another day or two and it will break free.
"attending to things in the moment with curiosity and acceptance."
____________________
82 Vanagon Westy - aka: Honey Badger - "cause she just dont give a ...."

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SlowLane
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by SlowLane » Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:53 pm

Mulcheese wrote: I believe that it has never worked from the day I bought it. I wish I had a good understanding of the construction so that I am aware of what is there before I decide to break in. Still working at it with the carb cleaner. Maybe another day or two and it will break free.
I think I have a spare or two lurking around in one of my piles of parts. I could probably part with one if you can't find another locally.
Have you confirmed that it's not an open circuit?
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

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dingo
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by dingo » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:32 pm

Check for impedance (OHms)between the terminals....if u still have something, then try filling with in ATF or PB Bl;aster for a day or two.
'71 Kombi, 1600 dp

';78 Tranzporter 2L

" Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches."

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Mulcheese
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by Mulcheese » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:07 am

I spoke with Rich at Cruzin yesterday and he basically said that if there is 0 flow then it is recommended that I not send it to him. Very unlikely that he can get it going. I have been soaking it in PB Blaster for a day now and the relay is more responsive but still no flow. I will keep soaking and see how it goes.

I have decided not to dissassemble as It probably will not go back together and I would prefer a non-working CSV then no CSV and something to plug the hole in the plenum.

I would like to get a working CSV in as many times I have cranked the van upon starting to the point that the battery drains down. Slowlane I may PM you if my cleaning process fails.

I am going to keep at (soaking and air pressure) it for some time. I am hoping to pull the van out next weekend, if we dont get anymore snow. Then I will decide what to do next.
"attending to things in the moment with curiosity and acceptance."
____________________
82 Vanagon Westy - aka: Honey Badger - "cause she just dont give a ...."

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asiab3
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by asiab3 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:01 am

Mulcheese wrote: I would like to get a working CSV in as many times I have cranked the van upon starting to the point that the battery drains down. Slowlane I may PM you if my cleaning process fails.
This is a red flag. It was around 40* the first few nights I got my FI bus to start up reliably. It started the same all week with and without the CSV plugged in. Yes, it took about six compression strokes to start. When warmed up, it fires on the first or second pulse. So I'm not sure how cold it is where you are, but the draining of the battery is cause for investigation into other systems. Timing setting, at idle and max advance? What kind of distributor? Throttle position during cranking?

If you crank for longer than about eight seconds, the TTS would shut it off by then anyway. I personally think there is more to your issues that JUST the CSV. Let's find out. :study:

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Bleyseng
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by Bleyseng » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:10 am

Something else is wrong or multiple things are wrong. It doesn't work above 40F and below that unless it's 0F doesn't do that much other than flood the plenum. It's not magical and the other injectors are firing right into the intake chambers giving you plenty of fuel to start. My westy fires on the second turn pretty much and has a roughish idle for a bit until it warms up.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
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Mulcheese
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by Mulcheese » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:49 am

Wow. I guess I must have a greater issue. Let us investigate. This seems like justification for a new post.
"attending to things in the moment with curiosity and acceptance."
____________________
82 Vanagon Westy - aka: Honey Badger - "cause she just dont give a ...."

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Amskeptic
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:20 am

Mulcheese wrote:Wow. I guess I must have a greater issue. Let us investigate. This seems like justification for a new post.
You drained your battery, I read, by cranking a lot, yes? Get the battery fully charged 2A overnight.


You *will* have 12 volts at the cold start valve during cranking, but you will not have a ground unless the thermo-time switch says you can have a ground.

Have you made a genuine electrical path through the cold start valve solenoid *with 36 psi fuel pressure* to clean the thing out?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 121,400 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 92,435 miles

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Mulcheese
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by Mulcheese » Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:13 am

Amskeptic wrote:
Mulcheese wrote:Wow. I guess I must have a greater issue. Let us investigate. This seems like justification for a new post.
You drained your battery, I read, by cranking a lot, yes? Get the battery fully charged 2A overnight.


You *will* have 12 volts at the cold start valve during cranking, but you will not have a ground unless the thermo-time switch says you can have a ground.

Have you made a genuine electrical path through the cold start valve solenoid *with 36 psi fuel pressure* to clean the thing out?
Colin
I have drained it in the past but that is not a current issue. New battery in. The current battery is fully charged and last fall it would take longer than it should to start. It would not actually drain down.

Currently I am bench testing with the CSV directly connected to a fully charged battery. I soak it in PBBlaster, plug one end, and use compressed air,well over 36 psi, in the other end with the cicuit closed. No flow. I'm hoping with more days of soaking it will free up.
"attending to things in the moment with curiosity and acceptance."
____________________
82 Vanagon Westy - aka: Honey Badger - "cause she just dont give a ...."

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Amskeptic
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:59 am

Mulcheese wrote: Currently I am bench testing with the CSV directly connected to a fully charged battery. I'm hoping with more days of soaking it will free up.
You do have continuity through the windings? If the pintle is frozen, windings can heat up and open circuit, here we come.Do you have a click upon energizing?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 121,400 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 92,435 miles

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Mulcheese
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by Mulcheese » Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:41 pm

Amskeptic wrote: You do have continuity through the windings? If the pintle is frozen, windings can heat up and open circuit, here we come.Do you have a click upon energizing?
Colin
Yes, it opens and closes (clicks and unclicks). This is would indicate a functioning CSV but yet I have no air flow. I am assuming it is quite gummed up. I am still spraying it and soaking it every day. Today I have switched to carb cleaner since the relay is functioning so smoothly but I am still without flow. No Im not talking about the saucy southern waitress that all the truckers lilke. Although I do enjoy flow like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmucWOLnAb4 it still doesnt help my situation.

Whats next?
"attending to things in the moment with curiosity and acceptance."
____________________
82 Vanagon Westy - aka: Honey Badger - "cause she just dont give a ...."

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Amskeptic
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Re: Cold Start Valve

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:58 am

Mulcheese wrote:
Amskeptic wrote: You do have continuity through the windings? If the pintle is frozen, windings can heat up and open circuit, here we come.Do you have a click upon energizing?
Colin
Yes, it opens and closes (clicks and unclicks). This is would indicate a functioning CSV but yet I have no air flow. I am assuming it is quite gummed up. I am still spraying it and soaking it every day. Today I have switched to carb cleaner since the relay is functioning so smoothly but I am still without flow. No Im not talking about the saucy southern waitress that all the truckers lilke. Although I do enjoy flow like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmucWOLnAb4 it still doesnt help my situation.

Whats next?
A new cold start valve . . . ?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 121,400 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 92,435 miles

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