Bus Depot "OEM Quality" Spark Plug Wires

[Gypsie]

Now that we have had a lesson in comparison shopping and statistical analysis, here is lesson in advertising.

If you come into a forum that is not pushing any agenda (other than "do it right and you will be rewarded with quality") or, on the surface at least, is not promoting any particular vendor and start lecturing people as to how to make decisions about their purchases by telling them that they can't express themselves the way they wish to express themselves, then you will push away the customers you are apparently trying to salvage. Then of course there are all the friends of the pushed away customers that hear about the defensive lecturing. As I understand it, word of mouth is pretty high up there on the advertising ladder, I'm not sure how it works in cyberspace.

IMO you were on the right track when you called Sluggo up short when he said something to the effect that "once again the bus depot parts are crap". It wasn't your part, you just sold it. Your point was taken and the situation was corrected as I recall. You are now debating, lecturing, and, in a way, criticizing your customers.

Exploring the forums that relate to your business is a good practice. Crying foul when you are fouled, again a good practice. Going on and on about how you think people should express themselves or make buying decisions, and in a condescending tone, no less, not so good:

if you are going to use forum topics like "parts found to be junk" (which is much more strongly worded than on any other forum I've seen), I think this point should be a 'sticky' on those threads. Any single, isolated report on a product that has not been "seconded" by others with the same experience should be taken with a grain of salt, because a sample size of one may not be representative of the product.

I can almost hear the whine from here.

We out here in "buying stuff land" are quite aware of what makes us make a final decision on our purchases. Frankly, it's not the sales rep. (or owner of the shop) that has the most influence. If the sales rep (or owner) tells me they were listening in on my conversation and they didn't like how I was talking or going about making my decision, that may help me with the final decision.

I've heard mixed reviews about Bus Depot and will still use my noggin when it comes to any purchasing I do (research the product, ask around, vision quest). When I feel like it, I will whine out loud about how crappy new parts are compared to old parts. They sure don't make 'em like they used to. I might even complain about my achin' bunions.

Stick to observing, absorbing, and clarification. Leave the lecturing for those seeking a lesson.

[busdepot]

Now that we have had a lesson in comparison shopping and statistical analysis, here is lesson in advertising.

This had nothing to do with advertising. It's 2 in the morning and I have to be at the shop at 8. I was writing this because I enjoyed the dialog. I found it interesting and thought I was presenting a differing point of view. Didn't mean to lecture or "tell anybody what they should think," just got caught up in the discussion. Sorry. I'm outa here.

[Gypsie]

BD- You are right about the dialog being interesting, and I believe that you should be here engaging in it.

Please do not take my "got my dander up" post to mean I do not wish to hear from you. I took offense at what I perceived as condescension and "got caught up" too. If I have offended, please accept my apology.

Don't go too far. I think there is good stuff going on here at IAC and you need to be part of it (for all of our sakes). Not this very minute of course, it is late.

[satchmo]

A good discussion. Really.

I want BD to succeed. Mostly because Ron is a hobbyist at heart and likes these vehicles like we do. He has found a way to turn his hobby into a business, and we all benefit.

However, I also want good quality parts. Unfortunately, I can't see, touch, or smell the parts Ron has in his warehouse. I agree with Ron that the 'Belatedly Discovered Junk' stickies with an N=1 don't give me enough information about a part. Therefore, I have to rely on what BD or other vendors say about a part in order to make a decision. If the description says 'OEM Quality', I think it means the part is the same quality as what my bus came with, not 'the best of the inferior reproductions available now'. This leaves plenty of room for me to be disappointed. Since I bought the part from the vendor rather than directly from the manufacturer, I'm usually disappointed with the vendor.

Somewhere along the line, we need quality control. I don't use enough CV joint boots (just as an example) to be able to test out which ones are good quality and which ones are inferior. If I get some from a vendor that develop tears within 10,000 miles, you can guess what my conclusion is. I blame the vendor. They are the ones that sell enough of these that they should know, either through first hand use/inspection, or from feedback from users, if the part is good quality or not.

I think it is German Supply that advertises that they don't sell any parts they wouldn't personally use on their own bus. Their inventory isn't too large, so I might actually believe this. They also tend to say so when they have a part listed that is clearly inferior, but currently the only one they have available. I appreciate that kind of honesty.

BD should try to be descriptive as possible about their parts. They should encourage feedback from buyers/users and use that information to edit out the bad apples, or toot the horn for the good parts. A 'Hot Buy' designation doesn't necessarily mean good quality, either. I know I complained to BD about a part once (it was CV boots, BTW). I can only hope that the feedback was useful.

Another request I would have of BD specifically, would be to have a real time inventory on their web site. I've heard previous explanations why this is difficult (parts are coming in soon, or perhaps just out temporarily at the supplier and may be restocked any day, etc), but it is way more disappointing for me to find the box from BD half empty, than to find the part listed out-of-stock at the time I tried to order it. My most recent purchase from BD arrived with only about 10 of the 16 items I originally ordered, and two of those missing parts were the only reason I ordered from BD. I don't have BD keep OOS items backordered (which is an option) either; there doesn't seem to be any way to know if the parts will ever be in stock. I don't want to wait indefinitely.

BTW, all the items I did receive in my last order from BD look to be first rate. A big thumbs up for that.

Tim Moody
Pullman, WA

[Sluggo]

I have to rely on what BD or other vendors say about a part in order to make a decision. If the description says 'OEM Quality', I think it means the part is the same quality as what my bus came with, not 'the best of the inferior reproductions available now'. This leaves plenty of room for me to be disappointed. Since I bought the part from the vendor rather than directly from the manufacturer, I'm usually disappointed with the vendor.

Excellent point, and that is exactly the beef I had. The manufacturer didn't tell me they were "OEM Quality". The description on the Bus Depot website did.

I do agree that the "Known Junk" and "Known Good" sections are not definitive right now. It could have been 1 bad out of 1,000,000 good, or it could have been a mistake by the installer. It takes time to get feedback for many items, but it has to start somewhere. When we get 100 posts in each section it will be more accurate. So everybody put as many reviews as you can in the appropriate sections.

[Sluggo]

Just got some Bosch spark plug wires from Autohaus AZ. Less than $20 and they were here in 4 days. Overall quality is excellent. Nice thick sleeve and good thick core. I also got a Beru plug holder to replace the one I borrowed from Bottomed and broke.

I checked the ones I got from Bus Depot and they are PVL. It's embossed on the bottom rim of the plug holder.

[chitwnvw]

I also got a Beru plug holder

What's that?

[Sluggo]

I also got a Beru plug holder

What's that?

Plug holders are the ceramic pieces at the end of your spark plug wires. Beru is a German company that makes auto parts. They make some good quality spark plug wires.

[chitwnvw]

Ceramic? That would be nice.

[Sluggo]

Ceramic? That would be nice.

The ones I got were. If you're gonna buy all 4 you might as well just get a set of Bosch wires. The holders & seals come with the wire set and it's only a few dollars more for the set than the individual holders. The set even comes with an extra longer coil wire as well as the normal length one just in case you've relocated your coil. I suggest trimming the wires for a perfect fit.

I also got some Toyota ball joint boots to use as plug seals. Saw the idea over on Samba. Can't remember the thread. They fit great and have a lip on the bottom that seals it to the tin. Only $1 each at Marlin Crawler. I bought an extra set for Bottomend too if he ever gets back.

[bottomend]

I'll be back (spoken as Ahhnald), and I'm gonna be gunnin' for ya Slusho! You busted my GERMAN PLUG HOLDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!!??????????????

The clock is ticking!!!!!!!! How did it happen?

BTW, I like the idea on the spark plug hole caps. Those have been a point of contention since I've had my bus.

[busdepot]

BD- You are right about the dialog being interesting, and I believe that you should be here engaging in it. Please do not take my "got my dander up" post to mean I do not wish to hear from you. I took offense at what I perceived as condescension and "got caught up" too. If I have offended, please accept my apology.

Don't go too far. I think there is good stuff going on here at IAC and you need to be part of it (for all of our sakes). Not this very minute of course, it is late.

I appreciate that, and I too apologize if my post came off as condescending. It honestly wasn't intended that way, but re-reading the last bit I can see how it could be taken that way. My comments were in no way intended to diminish IACF's attempt to put together customer reviews. In fact, quite to the contrary, I second Sluggo's encouragement that everyone post their product reviews, good or bad. Like I said, if one person posts an opinion it's only one person's opinion, but if 10 people review the same product and pretty much agree, then that tells you something. The more reviews, the more that is possible. Also, please do not hesitate to pm me if the product in question is a BD product, as I do use user feedback when determining what to carry (or not carry).

Now back to the issue at hand... It has been asserted that the PVL wires are these crappy thin wires whereas the Bosch's have a "nice thick sleeve." This didn't at all jibe with my memory, so I had my manager pull one of each out of inventory. While I can't say I've pulled out a micrometer, side by side they are virtually identical in diameter. If there's any difference at all, it is so small that it's not visible to the naked eye. Of course I didn't slice them open, but it follows that since they are the same thickness, either they have roughly the same amount of insulation, or one has more insulation and the other a thicker wire core.

See for yourself. The ones with the metal ends are the German PVL's; the plastic ones are the Bosch. Hopefully this clears up any confusion on that issue.

Editor's note: The link to the photo referenced is no longer available.

[Sluggo]

By sleeve thickness I meant the thickness of the individual layer of material that coats the outside of the wire and helps to insulate it. Not the wire thickness. Which would be 7mm.

The plug holders on the ones I got from BD are ceramic (or something similar looking) but have the PVL logo embossed on the bottom rim of the plug holder. I'll try to take a pic later. It's real small so I don't know if it will come out.

If you unscrew the plug holder you'll get a good look at the inside of the wire and can see the differences in material and thickness of the outer sleeve. It doesn't damage the wire at all.

That PVL wire you show looks to be much better quality. I'm glad they improved.

[Sluggo]

Here are the best pics I could get of the tiny letters.



These are the ones with thin sleeves that shocked me.

Editor's note: The links to the photos referenced are no longer available.

[Sluggo]

I just wanted to show him which wires they were. I have pics of the sleeves too.

Ron said they were probably the last of the Hella run with PVL plastic holders. He also gave me $10 credit if I order again. I would like some Konis on the front to match the rear. Hopefully I'll have the cash next time they're in.