'74 Bus Key Won't Turn, Intermittently

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whc03grady
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'74 Bus Key Won't Turn, Intermittently

Post by whc03grady » Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:06 pm

[Is this the right forum for this?]

This turns up intermittently and drives us nuts.

Sometimes, for no reason at all, the key will not turn over. As in, it's like it's the key for a different bus. It fits and all, but won't turn all the way to start or acc. I used to think turning the steering wheel helped but now I'm not so sure. There is no discernible difference between the try that works and the try that doesn't.

It might take a few tries and then turn, or it might take--no exaggeration--45 minutes worth of tries and then turn.

It might happen every time we try to start him for a week, and then disappear for two months, or it might happen once and then again in a week.

Thoughts?
Ludwig--1974 Westfalia, 2.0L (GD035193), Solex 34PDSIT-2/3 carburetors.
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com

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Bookwus
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Post by Bookwus » Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:47 pm

Hiya whc,

My thoughts............

The ignition switch is composed of three separate components. The keyway, the steering wheel lock, and the electrical switch. By far and away, the weak link in this threesome is the electrical switch.

When it goes completely south it can (and often does) lock the key in the keyway.

I cannot explain why your key start process seems so random, but my money would be on the electrical switch as the likely culprit.
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Manfred
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Post by Manfred » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:48 am

Try turning the steering wheel a tad. I've found that helps me disengage the steering wheel lock. If that doesn't work, at least you know it's not the steering lock.

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chitwnvw
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Post by chitwnvw » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:03 am

The ignition on the '73 is relatively easy to take apart, Grady. I'd take a peek, see if there is anything obvious, lube it up with graphite.

As I found out, it's getting tough to get a replacement electrical ignition switch for the '73s. Don't cheap out and get an aftermarket one. Scott at German Supply and Wolfsburg West have them...sometimes... and they aren't cheap. I was on the waiting list for a month before I got a used one from Manfred. Mine always turned, it just wouldn't fire the starter. So maybe Manfred is right and it's something more mechanical than electrical.

Good luck.

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whc03grady
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Post by whc03grady » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:48 am

Manfred wrote:Try turning the steering wheel a tad. I've found that helps me disengage the steering wheel lock. If that doesn't work, at least you know it's not the steering lock.
chitwnvw wrote:So maybe Manfred is right and it's something more mechanical than electrical.
It definitely is a mechanical, and not an electrical problem. Imagine taking the key from someone else's bus of the same year and trying to start yours with it: that's exactly what it's like!

I'll see what I can see about the steering wheel lock. Like I said, it used to seem that turning the wheel would help, but either that was just a coincidence or the problem has found a way to override that particular solution.

@bookwus: What do you mean by "lock the key in the keyway"? The key goes in and comes out easily.
Ludwig--1974 Westfalia, 2.0L (GD035193), Solex 34PDSIT-2/3 carburetors.
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com

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chitwnvw
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Post by chitwnvw » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:51 am

I've seen buses with the steering lock taken out, this may be why. I would take it apart and take a look.

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Post by vdubyah73 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:09 pm

Try not pushing the key all the way in. When it won't turn wiggle the key in or out a bit while turning. Some copies will go in a bit too far to work.
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Manfred
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Post by Manfred » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:24 pm

The steering wheel lock seems to have a lot of forced placed on it when parking a bus with the wheels turned all the way to the left or right. I'm sure after 30 some years of this, it will eventually crack something.

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Bookwus
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Post by Bookwus » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:00 pm

Hiya whc,

When my electrical switch failed (went kaput, whatever) it did so with the key in the keyway. That key would then not budge. I had to disassemble the ignition barrel and separate the components in order to remove the key. Since that incident I have talked to a couple of folks who have gone through the same thing and seen this phenomena mentioned over at TS.

If you get some relief from moving the steering wheel around a bit to disengage the lock then you may well have a mechanical problem, but I gathered from your original post that the lock did not seem to be causing the problem.

Know that the keyway is rock solid. Same goes for the steering wheel lock. Very dependable construction on those parts. The electrical switch is not nearly so robust. It is engaged via a small cam that protrudes from it. When it fails it may (as in my case above) cause that cam to freeze up and lock in place. The keyway will not then turn. I'm thinking that in your case you can turn the key but you may well have a switch failure inside the electrical component that prevents you from starting consistently.
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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:32 pm

whc03grady wrote: It definitely is a mechanical, and not an electrical problem.
Spray the heck out of the cylinder when you next do get it to rotate in the barrel. Aim at the interface between the stationary black trim and the chrome barrel. Also, give a slight spray of WD-40 to the key and dust it with graphite powder Just as you open the spring-loaded door, spritz the opening with WD-40. This will find the steering lock pin. Run the key in and out to help graphite the tumblers. My ignition switch/steering lock got that treatment early on and has not given a lick of trouble.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Post by RussellK » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:46 am

How about a shot of pressurized air. I had a switch that was temperamental and I gave it a blast and then it was smooth as glass. My guess is grit of some kind or just debris from wear was making the switch stubborn.

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whc03grady
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Post by whc03grady » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:14 am

Amskeptic wrote:Spray the heck out of the cylinder when you next do get it to rotate in the barrel. Aim at the interface between the stationary black trim and the chrome barrel. Also, give a slight spray of WD-40 to the key and dust it with graphite powder Just as you open the spring-loaded door, spritz the opening with WD-40. This will find the steering lock pin. Run the key in and out to help graphite the tumblers. My ignition switch/steering lock got that treatment early on and has not given a lick of trouble.
Colin
Done. No trouble, not once, in the intervening four months. Do I dare call this case closed?

I do.
Ludwig--1974 Westfalia, 2.0L (GD035193), Solex 34PDSIT-2/3 carburetors.
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com

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hambone
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Post by hambone » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:20 pm

Same happened to me but it was the electrical part of the switch. Siezed up the key.
Why does Bentley say to take off the steering wheel to replace? That isn't needed.
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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:42 pm

whc03grady wrote:
Amskeptic wrote:Spray the heck out of the cylinder when you next do get it to rotate in the barrel. Aim at the interface between the stationary black trim and the chrome barrel. Also, give a slight spray of WD-40 to the key and dust it with graphite powder Just as you open the spring-loaded door, spritz the opening with WD-40. This will find the steering lock pin. Run the key in and out to help graphite the tumblers. My ignition switch/steering lock got that treatment early on and has not given a lick of trouble.
Colin
Done. No trouble, not once, in the intervening four months. Do I dare call this case closed?

I do.
Me too. My little hints and What Worked For Me are going to slowly die away as I do not have a '73 bus any more . . . :pale:
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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