'69 Bus Horn Not Horny

[hambone]

1969 Bus

Well, I decided to fix my non-functional horn once and for all.

One of the wires still has a female terminal, the other bare and frayed. Pulled the wires off the horn, cleaned the male terminals on the horn sparkly, sprayed the whole gizmo with electrical cleaner and crimped on a new female connector. Then with a slight tug I realized that the wire (presumably from the fuse box) wasn't even connected to anything! It has been cleanly cut and pushed up into the front body cavity to dangle with nary a concern. Fun times. So, I spliced a length of wire onto it and fed it up into the fuse-box area.
While busy checking and cleaning everything of relevance, I pulled the horn button, and noticed the wire up there wasn't connected either! O.k. a quicker fix, I just pushed it on it's terminal. Before that though, I pulled the sprung metal horn ring and cleaned the contact area behind.
With nothing left to lose I grounded the loose wire for kicks to see if anything would happen. A cow-like BEEP so I know the horn works.

Here's where the fun really starts. After consulting my Bentley manual, (and flashing back to the PO's tales of a post-'69 wiring hodgepodge added in the mid '70s after a nose replacement) I realize quickly that nothing matches - wire colors are wrong, God knows what goes where.
Well let's try a little trial and error. With the key OFF, I tried to connect the loose wire to where the diagram says it should go, but I get A BEEP. Peculiar, that shouldn't happen. I tried connecting to various fuse terminals, some make th' beep others don't.
O.k. let's try it with the key switched on. No, the horn doesn't BEEP when the button is depressed.
I am now stumped. What do I do next??? Does the steering column have to come off? Criminy. Wiring is much more difficult when the diagram is useless. Help me if you can!

(a side note: when did Bentley go with black and white wiring diagrams? They really suck.)

[bus71]

If the steering column is not insulated from the body, the horn won't work correctly. There should be a plastic insulator at the steering lock, and another where the column connects to the bracket on the floor. Hope this helps!

[hambone]

Non-locking steering column, but there is a plastic ring below the turn signal gizmo. Not sure about the floor.
It's weird that grounding a wire with the ignition off would cause it to BEEP.

[dingo]

I have a tattered Bentley manual from '76. It has nice fold out color wiring schematics.

[hambone]

Bastards! The newer reprints are black and white with the wires labelled "ylw/blk" thanks fer nothin'.

[bus71]

There are two wires on the horn, one should go to the fuse box. The other provides a ground via a male spade connector near the steering box/coupler to the column. Good luck! I had some frustrating times with mine.

[spiffy]

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/inf ... _6869a.jpg

Go back to the technical page to look at the legend. I used these for the 67. As far as the horn sounding without the ignition on I would guess that the juice is coming from an unswitched source before the fuse box or after the part of the fuse box that is always "live".

Bill's horn works sometimes at his descretion apparently. I think I should clean all the terminals like you did but for now I will just let it be an indicator of how happy he is. meep meep.

[hambone]

Color! Thank you!

[KYLE]

There are plenty of good color diagrams with legends at:
http://www.vintagebus.com

[Amskeptic]

VW horns get their power from a switched source, i.e. ignition on only.
Colin
(I mean, why blow the horn when the car is off, "piiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnkghgkkgkgh, piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnngnngngggg"
"honey, what the hell was that?"
"Oh, I don't know dear, some goat or sheep, go to sleep.")

[hambone]

So why would it BEEP with the ignition switch off and a horn wire grounded? Something is obviously drastically wrong with the wiring.

[Amskeptic]

So why would it BEEP with the ignition switch off and a horn wire grounded? Something is obviously drastically wrong with the wiring.

No Bigga Deal. Somebody has merely attached the (+) side of the horn to a constant voltage source. If you look at your fuse box diagram, most of the fuses on the left side of the box are constant hot, for headlamps and emergency flashers and whatnot. As you go right, wipers and defoggers are only switched on with the ignition switch. See which fuse is supposed to run the horn, and merely follow the horn wire to the fuse box where it must be plugged onto the correct spade terminal.
Colin

[hambone]

Ok, I follow ya. That means the snipped wire (which I've been grounding for the BEEP) SHOULD go to the steering column, up to the horn button. Is there an easy terminal at the bottom of the steering column to attach this wire? Where the heck does it GO?!?!
There is a nice original brown wire heading down from the horn button ring into the tube of darkness (steering column), to POINTS UNKNOWN. I'll betcha it's snipped end is lonely somewhere, dreaming of conveying electrons once again.
A relevent thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewto ... light=horn

yes there are three wires. only two brown ground wires. the third is the + wire (black and yellow).

black and yellow wire- from fuse box to horn

brown wire- from base of steering tube to horn

brown wire- from steering box to the horn ring (thru the center of the steering shaft)

Last edited by dansvans on Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

[hambone]

There are two wires on the horn, one should go to the fuse box. The other provides a ground via a male spade connector near the steering box/coupler to the column. Good luck! I had some frustrating times with mine.

Thank you! I will check it out tonite and see what I find. This is like a treasure hunt...


P.S. Colin gets around:

VeeDubzz wrote:
Whats the best way to test the horn itself?

Preliminary:
Turn on the ignition. Go under car. Pull a wire off the horn and apply your test lamp to the wire and any bare metal. Does it light? That thar is your "positive" wire. Put it back on the horn. No light? Try the other wire. Does it make the lamp light up? Well, that's your positive then.
Still no light? Get power to the horn.

Test:
With known power wire on the horn and ignition on, ground the other terminal on the horn to any bare metal with a piece of wire. Horn should sound.

VeeDubzz wrote:
So when you push the button, you supply the ground to the negative side of the horn. Right?

Let's try to be more precise to help you visualize the circuit. The circuit is live to the horn and it is live after the horn too [but being down stream of the consumer (the horn windings) it is considered part of the ground path] all the way up the Annoying As Hell spade under the steering column support. The steering shaft is live, as is the steering wheel. The break in the circuit is at the spring-loaded horn button which is insulated from the steering wheel pot metal by little plastic insulators. . . until you push down and ground the live steering wheel to the the always grounded horn ring (it is grounded by the brown wire sticking up out of the steering shaft which is in turn grounded by the steering box flange. Amazing. Crafty. Geman. Engineering.

Horn Off:
Battery (+) > Horn +/- > Steering Column-to-Shaft > Steering Wheel > Horn Ring > Steering Flange > Battery (-)

Horn On:
Battery (+) > Horn +/- > Steering Column-to-Shaft > Steering WheelXHorn Ring > Steering Flange > Battery (-)

HTH
Colin

[hambone]

Climbed under the bus last nite in the brief window between rain showers. Guess what, I see the male wiring tab behind the rubber steering coupler (after much pretzel-twisting of my neck etc.)...wow that's gonna be fun to attach.
It's dusty and tarnished, looks like it hasn't been connected for a very long time. I'd like to try to clean it but it's not going to be easy. Anyway when I get a chance I'll get it connected and we'll see what happens.
Thanks again!