Starter delay

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Mulcheese
Getting Hooked!
Location: Maple Grove, Mn
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Starter delay

Post by Mulcheese » Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:09 am

Well I call it a delay but that may not be the best description.

When the van is cold, sat for a while or in the morning, all is fine. The starter engages the flywheel and the engine turns and starts.

When it is warm there is a different story. When the key is turned the solenoid functions and pulls the armature out. I can hear and feel the starter engage the flywheel but for a brief moment it is as if there is not enough energy to turn the engine over but then all of the sudden it turns, yet a little slower than what I feel is needed. It then starts.

The other day I pulled the starter, cleaned the connections, pulled the solenoid and lubed the cylinder. Put all back together and installed and good news. Now the symptoms are less. Now when warm there is still that delay but not as long and sometimes almost not present.

Ground strap connections are good and clean as with the connections at the starter. This is a problem that has become more present over the years and this year it was at the worst until IO pulled it.

It feels as if the starter just doesnt have enough power to turn the engine when warm.

What you think? What are typical symptoms of a bad starter motor (brushes and commutator)?
"attending to things in the moment with curiosity and acceptance."
____________________
82 Vanagon Westy - aka: Honey Badger - "cause she just dont give a ...."

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sgkent
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Location: Citrus Heights CA (near Sacramento)
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Re: Starter delay

Post by sgkent » Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:10 pm

watch the battery voltage under load and see how far it is dipping. Generally batteries do better when warm but things can happen internally like loose battery posts or plates that have to arc to establish a connection. Also as a starter gets older the armature expands. Sometimes when a starter is older and the starter hot, the armature can rub, making starting harder. GM starters were famous for this on some of the GM motors. I know I haven't given you a definitive answer, but your voltmeter can tell you a lot about what is happening.
Thank You -

Merlin The Wrench

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Amskeptic
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Re: Starter delay

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:48 pm

Mulcheese wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:09 am
Well I call it a delay but that may not be the best description.

When the van is cold, sat for a while or in the morning, all is fine. The starter engages the flywheel and the engine turns and starts.

When it is warm there is a different story. When the key is turned the solenoid functions and pulls the armature out. I can hear and feel the starter engage the flywheel but for a brief moment it is as if there is not enough energy to turn the engine over but then all of the sudden it turns, yet a little slower than what I feel is needed. It then starts.

The other day I pulled the starter, cleaned the connections, pulled the solenoid and lubed the cylinder. Put all back together and installed and good news. Now the symptoms are less. Now when warm there is still that delay but not as long and sometimes almost not present.

Ground strap connections are good and clean as with the connections at the starter. This is a problem that has become more present over the years and this year it was at the worst until IO pulled it.

It feels as if the starter just doesnt have enough power to turn the engine when warm.

What you think? What are typical symptoms of a bad starter motor (brushes and commutator)?

Mulcheese, how are you?
I think this issue is originating inside of the solenoid as the winding insulation breaks down.
If you have good system voltage 12.7 + before starting attempt:
a) install a temporary/permanent experimental/fixed-it hard start relay
b) replace solenoid
c) replace entire starter
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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sgkent
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Location: Citrus Heights CA (near Sacramento)
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Re: Starter delay

Post by sgkent » Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:58 am

measure your voltage under load at these points first. Please
At the battery posts
Between the starter post and the engine ground
Between the solenoid trigger wire and engine ground

If any are substantially lower than the battery post voltage then look for a bad connection in that circuit.
Thank You -

Merlin The Wrench

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Mulcheese
Getting Hooked!
Location: Maple Grove, Mn
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Re: Starter delay

Post by Mulcheese » Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:37 am

sgkent wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:58 am
measure your voltage under load at these points first. Please
At the battery posts
Between the starter post and the engine ground
Between the solenoid trigger wire and engine ground

If any are substantially lower than the battery post voltage then look for a bad connection in that circuit.
I have a battery load tester and that shows that the battery is good. I did not get to test at the starter.

Colin, I am doing great, thanks. I am confident that the solenoid is good as I can hear and feel it engage the armature to the flywheel. It would feel as if there just was not enough power to turn the engine. Would crank very slow until it turns faster until the engine starts.

I decided to just replace the starter with a reman Bosch. I havent been able to test it under the same circumstances but original tests show that it is cranking at a much greater rate so I am hopefull.
"attending to things in the moment with curiosity and acceptance."
____________________
82 Vanagon Westy - aka: Honey Badger - "cause she just dont give a ...."

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