Gypsie's 090 Tranny Swap

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Gypsie
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Gypsie's 090 Tranny Swap

Post by Gypsie » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:14 am

'K,
So my tranny is doing all the things a dying tranny does, what with the slippage and the kickdown spinout etc. etc.

I looked into rebuilding and that is looking like a great project for someone that has some time and ducats to do it.

Considered sending it out but then you need more ducats...

Hav a line on a later 80's water cooled tranny/transaxle for $300.

The Plan is to swap whatever makes the most sense.

The whole enchilada or just the tranny section?.....That's the question.

The new tranny will have an oil cooler option. Some have suggested mounting a cooler up in there. I also have a suggestion to just make a closed loop from the cooler ports as i won't need a cooler.

I like the cooler idea for the backwoods stuff we do, as it likely gets a bit hot back there and every bit of cooling is good....Right?

This project won't start for a couple of weeks as I am moving this weekend and the shop won't be available for use for a bit.

Any pre project suggestions/offerings/snideways remarks?
So it all started when I wanted to get better gas mileage....

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hambone
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Post by hambone » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:43 am

What about the Audi option you were so excited abooot? Sounds like a good plan to get something newer, if possible.
Late 80s is a long time ago....we are coots. It's a lot of work to swap in a transmission, make sure ya get a good one.
Other than that, I know very little about automatic transmissions as I try to stay away from the darn things.
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Gypsie
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Post by Gypsie » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:53 am

hambone wrote:What about the Audi option you were so excited abooot?
Potential Audi tranny out there someplace....maybe
OR

Definite Vanagon tranny in it's entirety (perhaps even a TC)...

The nice thing is he will take it back and refund my money if it doesn't work.

(Thank you Kubelwagon for making me chuckle every time I mention that I have a dead tranny in my vanagon...snort)
So it all started when I wanted to get better gas mileage....

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hambone
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Post by hambone » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:07 am

I'm just worried about longevity with a used one from that long ago. I guess if it has low miles it doesn't matter. Is there a way to check before installation?
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it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
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Gypsie
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Post by Gypsie » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:06 pm

Good question. Methinks not. Likely it will be as much of a chance as pulling one at a salvage yard. Less so with the money back part.

The Audi Tranny would be from that era as well so the age issue is comparable.

I think the best indicater will be fluid condition and inspection during the procedure.

I will also know more about transaxle condition when I start dissassembling.

Further investigation into rebuilding revealed that there are more parts needed than just a master kit.
Not even sure if there are any special tools needed.

Can't watch my new engine go to the scrap yard. Something must be done.
So it all started when I wanted to get better gas mileage....

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Kubelwagen
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Post by Kubelwagen » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:50 pm

They make limited slip differentials, if you find a bunch of cash in the wall of your new place. I'd love to upgrade to one sometime.

(RE: my dizzy - trying to sort out of I have the CA only one or not. Will do some exploration this weekend.)
Patience the 81 Adventurewagen

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Gypsie
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Post by Gypsie » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:39 am

It's more than the tranny... New metal to metal tapping sound (engine related, think I).

Fingers crossed. Will pull the engine and tranny to give it the once over when I get the shop together...

crap!
So it all started when I wanted to get better gas mileage....

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Post by justgimmecoffee » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:56 am

it'll work fine. My tranny's still alive and kickin' after 30 years and 160k miles. Change the oil frequently and keep your AAA paid up... what more can you do?
Replace the inoperable parts and keep moving along.

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Gypsie
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Post by Gypsie » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:01 am

I am splitting this thread into two parts: engine and tranny.

This part will be devoted to tranny conversion issues.

I was able to locate a tranny from an 85 vanagon that will have cooler capability.

on inspection it appears that there may be some clearance issues but I do not have all the pieces as yet.

I will be using a cooler and thermoswitched fan mounted under the underbelly.

basic plumbing and some minor electrical.

I have been sourcing parts and reviewing other sites for some guidance.

Has anyone here done this (or similar)?

Found a thermoswitch for 25-30 bones. Anyone know of an auto that has one so I can get it from a upullit?

The cooler with a fan will likely be overkill but with me towing stuff and haulin wood I want ubercooling capability. Might just go with a dash switch.

I will post some pix soon.
So it all started when I wanted to get better gas mileage....

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:27 am

Gypsie wrote: I will be using a cooler and thermoswitched fan
with me towing stuff and haulin wood I want ubercooling capability.
Might just go with a dash switch.
Make it an automatic switch. When you are towing and hauling wood, your concentration ought be elsewhere.
ColinMom
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Gypsie
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Re: Gypsie's 090 Tranny Swap

Post by Gypsie » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:33 am

'MK,

So..after a brief hiatus from all things wrenchin' due to an illness that would not let me out in the cold, a cold shop, and the holidaze, I am back at it with renewed vigor and hope.

One thing about a prolonged project, rather than an 'I got to get it running soon cause I need it' project that warrants late night shifts and an abandoned family is that it's hard to keep track of parts and where you are in the steps of the process.

Funny story,

Just finished getting the engine buttoned up, all topend done, electrical reconnected, tin, heat exchangers, ready to mate with a transmission. While cleaning up the bench to prepare for the transmission work, I found a package with half a set of new cam bearings.

That's the funny part. Hmmm, think I, why would I have a half a set of cam bearings sitting on my bench. (My little inner voice was screaming and slapping me on the back of the head Benny Hill style, knowing perfectly well why there would be a half a set of cam bearings sitting on the bench.) My Vinnie Barbarino voice was all the while saying, "Wha...who...where...how...")

After the voices all sat down and had a good cry, they hugged it out and we all set to work stripping it back down to the nubbins. Three hours later I resealed the case with a full set of cam bearings in place.

Wasn't that funny, in a sick to your stomach, 'maybe they squeezed the forceps a bit hard pulling me out' sort of way...

Anyhow, I will continue to reassemble the engine tonight while I finish negotiations with a gent on the east coast for a mid-late '80s vanagon automatic transmission mount (the part that connects to the transmission and has a cutout to make room for the oil cooler, hint hint, anyone have one?...).

I have an adjustable thermo switch on it's way for the oil cooler that will be mounted in the underbelly to control the fan and keep the tranny fluid cool.

pulled the plug on the diff and it doesn't look like there's been any introduction of tranny fluid into it.

Curious if anyone knows what particular seal is the culprit for transmission fluid getting into the diff? There are several seals that appear to separate the two sections. I am hesitant to pull the two sides apart if it's not needed. I would change this seal as a preventive measure if it was a simple straitforward operation.

Also curious if anyone has an opinion about changing some of the seals (a seal Kit I bought has 2nd gear plunger seals and some others but not pinion seals and many others.

I will have my original transmisison to strip down and rebuild at my leasure, but I do not want to create another 'urgency' by pulling this one apart since it does not appear to need it.

Anyway, there's where it's at.
So it all started when I wanted to get better gas mileage....

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Gypsie
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Re: Gypsie's 090 Tranny Swap

Post by Gypsie » Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:29 pm

Well the new bracket is on it's way to me. I am a scosh concerned about compatibility and whether the new mounting will relocate the moustache bar on the frame...

Should be a tad fudgable but I'm hoping for straight up "no problem"
So it all started when I wanted to get better gas mileage....

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Re: Gypsie's 090 Tranny Swap

Post by ruckman101 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:03 am

Praise be hind sight. Glad you caught the bearing issue. Sounds like you're up to wrenching speed. Refamiliarized. May the rest flow flawlessly.

neal
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Re: Gypsie's 090 Tranny Swap

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:16 pm

Gypsie wrote:
what particular seal is the culprit for transmission fluid getting into the diff? There are several seals that appear to separate the two sections.

opinion about changing some of the seals (a seal Kit I bought has 2nd gear plunger seals and some others but not pinion seals and many others.

I do not want to create another 'urgency' by pulling this one apart since it does not appear to need it.
You mention "2nd gear plunger seals and others but not pinion seals and many others", and ask for an opinion?
OK. I'll play.
Change out some seals possibly including a pinion seal if you find one but not the other except if you have to, or not.

My field recommendations presume you are on the road or have time constraints.
If you can touch any of the seals in question, the answer will be right there. If the rubber is hard as a rock, replace. If it is still supple, look in the vicinity for evidence of prior leakage.
My shop recommendation in the middle of winter is replace every seal, correctly.
Colin :cyclopsani:
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Gypsie
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Re: Gypsie's 090 Tranny Swap

Post by Gypsie » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:26 pm


Amskeptic wrote:You mention "2nd gear plunger seals and others but not pinion seals and many others", and ask for an opinion?
OK. I'll play.
:cyclopsani:


Thanks for responding. My question was asked as such to inquire of those that may have purchased a "transmission seal kit" that includes the above mentioned seals, (apparently an exterior seal kit). I thought this kit would be kind of like an engine seal kit that would provide all the seals needed to seal the transmission. This kit seems to provide a minimal amount of seals, and no seal that would be responsible for the tranny/diff fluid exchange problem.

A person having purchased said kit or replaced the problematic seal(s) may know what I am talking about and offer an opinion about their experience. Maybe not.

It seemed odd to me that a "transmission seal kit" would include only exterior type seals (ie the seals that only require removal of covers (governer and 2nd gear plunger) and some external components (2nd gear plunger, governer, pan) as well the gasket and o-ring for the seperation of the tranny and diff (though not the main shaft seal twixt the two), and not the apparent plethora of seals inside the transmission and differential. Changing these exterior seals may be helpful, or may just be potentially opening another can of worms if one is not prepared to handle the entire rebuild (something I was hoping to avoid). Some of the seals in the transmission and differential require entire dissassembly of the tranny and diff to replace. These seals are not in the kit I have. As well, the friction pads and steel plates are not included which I expected as I wasn't planning on rebuilding, just sealing. I was surprized that the seal kit seemed so light on seals and didn't seem to have the seal(s) for the fluid exchange.

I was hoping that someone would know which particular seal, if it is in fact one, that causes the leakage from the transmission to the differential. This way I would not necessarily have to dissassemble to explore for hard, cracked seals (that likely should be replaced after opening a 20 year old piece of machinery anyway).

Amskeptic wrote:My shop recommendation in the middle of winter is replace every seal, correctly.
Colin :cyclopsani:


That's what I thought would be recommended.

So, since it appears that I will be dissassembling the tranny and differential to change all the seals (that may come in a "master transmission rebuild kit" or may not.)

I am pondering if I should then consider reinstalling the transmission that I thought was dying (that actually may have been the worn cam lobe making the engine operate on only two cylinders and not have been transmission issues at all...), while I source parts and learn how to rebuild a transmission. I may find that the old transmission is fine and will carry me through this camping season while I work on the new transmission. If not, I'll park it and do the rebuild right away. Then when the tranny is rebuilt, swap it out.

Removal of the tranny with the engine in does not appear to be too difficult, so a future swap may not be too bad.

Or just consider that this next camping season may be out while I do a complete transmisison rebuild. I am of the 'If it aint broke, don't fixit" mindset. Cursery inspection of the 'New Tranny', does not indicate leakage or fluid contamination in the diff.
I am concerned that I can get started on rebuilding the transmission and hit a dead-end with part sourcing.


-GypsiegettinabitchillyhereninIACland...
So it all started when I wanted to get better gas mileage....

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