Clutch cable adjustment - '78

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THall
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Re: Shifting issues

Post by THall » Sat May 31, 2014 1:44 pm

THall wrote:Alright...engine comes out tomorrow. I will report my findings.

Thank you
Just finished dropping the engine...and I found at least one of the issues. As Colin noted perhaps one of the transaxle mounts may have failed and would be causing some chatter. Any recommendations for a source for these bell housing mounts?

Sure enough:
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Now, how much does this play into the grinding I was having when trying to find reverse? Here are pictures of bell housing and rear of engine. Before I go any further and remove flywheel and clutch I was hoping to get some feedback on how I should proceed at this point.

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'78 Westy 2.0 FI

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tristessa
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Re: Shifting issues

Post by tristessa » Sat May 31, 2014 2:53 pm

THall wrote: Any recommendations for a source for these bell housing mounts?
They aren't new, but I've got a couple good used ones you can have for shipping if needed. Should fit into one of those $5.95 flat-rate Priority Mail boxes...
Remember, only YOU can prevent narcissism!

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THall
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Re: Shifting issues

Post by THall » Sat May 31, 2014 3:41 pm

tristessa wrote:
THall wrote: Any recommendations for a source for these bell housing mounts?
They aren't new, but I've got a couple good used ones you can have for shipping if needed. Should fit into one of those $5.95 flat-rate Priority Mail boxes...
Wow, that would be great! How would you like me to get you the payment?

Thank you very much,

-Tim
'78 Westy 2.0 FI

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Amskeptic
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Re: Shifting issues

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:32 am

THall wrote:
tristessa wrote:
THall wrote: Any recommendations for a source for these bell housing mounts?
They aren't new, but I've got a couple good used ones you can have for shipping if needed. Should fit into one of those $5.95 flat-rate Priority Mail boxes...
Wow, that would be great! How would you like me to get you the payment?

Thank you very much,

-Tim
You still need to free the clutch plate from the pressure plate and check its movement on the input shaft splines. Also check the lubrication of the pilot bearing. Based on the photographs, I would recommend that you clean off all old grease from the input shaft splines and lightly re-lubricate. You do not want to attract dust which makes sludge.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 116,898 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 84,465 miles

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THall
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Re: Shifting issues

Post by THall » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:33 am

Amskeptic wrote:
THall wrote:
tristessa wrote:
THall wrote: Any recommendations for a source for these trans mount bushings?
They aren't new, but I've got a couple good used ones you can have for shipping if needed. Should fit into one of those $5.95 flat-rate Priority Mail boxes...
Wow, that would be great! How would you like me to get you the payment?

Thank you very much,

-Tim
You still need to free the clutch plate from the pressure plate and check its movement on the input shaft splines. Also check the lubrication of the pilot bearing. Based on the photographs, I would recommend that you clean off all old grease from the input shaft splines and lightly re-lubricate. You do not want to attract dust which makes sludge.
Colin
Removed pressure plate and clutch disc. While it does slide freely on the input shaft, there is some grime on there. I will do a thorough cleaning job on shaft splines and surfaces that contact the clutch disc.

Do I need to remove the flywheel to check for proper lubrication of the pilot bearing? If no, do I just feel in there? And, what is the recommended technique for adding lubrication? Multipurpose or moly grease for the bearing and the input shaft?

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'78 Westy 2.0 FI

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Amskeptic
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Re: Shifting issues

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:40 am

THall wrote: Do I need to remove the flywheel to check for proper lubrication of the pilot bearing? If no, do I just feel in there?
This is a pinky finger job with some moly grease. Work it into the little needle bearings but good.

Please cross-hatch-sand the end of the input shaft where it contacts the pilot bearing. Use 320 grit and clean exceptionally well when you are done (no sanding residue in the splines!).

That clutch plate looks nasty. Does a paper towel, wetted with some carb spray, come up with black goo?
It should be lightly and consistently sanded on both sides until you have a verifiably dry surface.

Clean the flywheel and pressure plate contact surfaces with carb spray. Does the paper towel come up clean? These clutch contact surfaces must be perfectly oil/grease free. A cross-hatch-sanding of both is not a bad idea. Clean the holes in the flywheel contact surface area where dust/grease sludge likes to hide.

Clean the flanges where the bell housing and engine mate. The least bit of crap makes them no longer parallel, egregious dirt can cause the input shaft to bind in the pilot bearing.

Are the fingers of the pressure plate all even in the now unclamped pressure plate? When you bolt up the pressure plate, make sure they move evenly as you cross-tighten the 13mm clutch cover bolts in 1/2 turn increments.

Any unusual shine on the release bearing surface suggests an alignment issue. You want the release bearing to slide nicely on the collar. I have heard some suggest nothing but dry graphite lubricant between the release bearing and collar. I use a light light smear of moly grease.
Good luck!
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 116,898 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 84,465 miles

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THall
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Re: Clutch cable adjustment - '78

Post by THall » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:00 pm

Thank you Colin! I will get things sanded, cleaned....cleaned some more, and lubricated. And, hopefully report back with good news.

Also, a big thank you to tristessa for sending some bell housing mounts over to Wisconsin.

The knowledge shared and the generosity of this community is truly appreciated.
'78 Westy 2.0 FI

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THall
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Re: Shifting issues

Post by THall » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:26 am

Amskeptic wrote:
THall wrote: Do I need to remove the flywheel to check for proper lubrication of the pilot bearing? If no, do I just feel in there?
This is a pinky finger job with some moly grease. Work it into the little needle bearings but good.

Please cross-hatch-sand the end of the input shaft where it contacts the pilot bearing. Use 320 grit and clean exceptionally well when you are done (no sanding residue in the splines!).

That clutch plate looks nasty. Does a paper towel, wetted with some carb spray, come up with black goo?
It should be lightly and consistently sanded on both sides until you have a verifiably dry surface.

Clean the flywheel and pressure plate contact surfaces with carb spray. Does the paper towel come up clean? These clutch contact surfaces must be perfectly oil/grease free. A cross-hatch-sanding of both is not a bad idea. Clean the holes in the flywheel contact surface area where dust/grease sludge likes to hide.

Clean the flanges where the bell housing and engine mate. The least bit of crap makes them no longer parallel, egregious dirt can cause the input shaft to bind in the pilot bearing.

Are the fingers of the pressure plate all even in the now unclamped pressure plate? When you bolt up the pressure plate, make sure they move evenly as you cross-tighten the 13mm clutch cover bolts in 1/2 turn increments.

Any unusual shine on the release bearing surface suggests an alignment issue. You want the release bearing to slide nicely on the collar. I have heard some suggest nothing but dry graphite lubricant between the release bearing and collar. I use a light light smear of moly grease.
Good luck!
Colin
I performed all these prescribed actions as well as installing a nice set of bell housing mounts and replacing the gear oil with Redline MT-90. Got everything buttoned up and have taken a couple nice long drives with no issues. Shifts great into all gears including reverse...even when fully warmed up. Ultimately, I can't say for sure what the main culprit of my issues was, but it's nice to be on the road again.
Now my itinerary visit will focus on the brakes as I had hoped. See ya in August Colin, have safe travels.
'78 Westy 2.0 FI

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Amskeptic
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Re: Shifting issues

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:56 pm

THall wrote: I performed all these prescribed actions Shifts great into all gears including reverse...even when fully warmed up. Ultimately, I can't say for sure what the main culprit of my issues was,
All of them were main culprits . . . :cyclopsani:
Imagine someone saying that you must skip one of those operations. Which one would you ignore?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 116,898 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 84,465 miles

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THall
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Clutch chatter....the continuing saga

Post by THall » Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:12 am

I thought I had my clutch chatter problems solved, but during my visit with Colin he noticed there was still a bit of slipping. Plus I had a minor drip of what I now believe to be tranny oil coming from the engine/bell housing seam after longer drives.

So, this Labor Day weekend involves engine removal, not camping. Here's what I found:

Throw out bearing looks to have even wear.
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Flywheel and pressure plate. All of the splines on the pressure plate were nice and even. But certainly some heat marks on there.
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Clutch disc. Looks kinda nasty. Should probably just get a new one.
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Bell housing looks like it had some fluid weeping in there but it wasn't obviously coming from the shaft seal. It looks like there may be fluid coming in from the bolts that mount the housing to the tranny? There was a very small puddle when I separated engine/tranny, but didn't see a distinct trail from where it came from.
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There was no evidence of leaking on the engine side.
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Where to go from here...

1. Would it be a good idea to take my flywheel and pressure plate for resurfacing at a machine shop? If yes, what instructions should be given for best results.

2. I'm guessing it's also a good idea to get a new clutch disc?

3. Thoughts on possible tranny fluid weeping in the bell housing. It doesn't look like the shaft seal is the main culprit? That was changed in the spring and looks pretty good? Replace anyway just to be sure? Re-torque the bolts inside the bell housing?
'78 Westy 2.0 FI

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Amskeptic
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Re: Clutch chatter....the continuing saga

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:14 am

THall wrote:I thought I had my clutch chatter problems solved, but during my visit with Colin he noticed there was still a bit of slipping. Plus I had a minor drip of what I now believe to be tranny oil coming from the engine/bell housing seam after longer drives.


flywheel and pressure plate for resurfacing at a machine shop?

new clutch disc?

possible tranny fluid weeping in the bell housing Re-torque the bolts inside the bell housing?

Sand then with 220 emery, do a cross-hatch, be slow and thorough, rinse with GumOut and paper towels, now inspect.
If you see ingrained heat marks, replace.

Yes.

Only you can ascertain if this is transaxle oil. I would replace the input shaft seal as a matter of course at this point.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 116,898 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 84,465 miles

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THall
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Re: Clutch cable adjustment - '78

Post by THall » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:30 pm

My engine and transmission are currently out and I had the flywheel resurfaced, installed a new clutch disc and replaced the main shaft seal in hopes of solving my slippage issues once and for all.

My current question is should I remove the transmission nose cone to have a peek inside just to see if anything needs attention? Not sure if that would be considered a standard maintenance practice?

I should also mention that while I had the mated engine and tranny on the platform I built to move it around, which is about 6 inches off the ground, the tranny side being slightly unbalanced tipped back and hit the concrete. I was able to partially slow it down, but it did hit the floor with a slight impact. It landed on the bottom of the tranny case at the nose cone seam. Don't know if that would in itself be cause for concern, but thought it worth mentioning. Or, maybe for that reason alone I should have a look inside?

Thanks
'78 Westy 2.0 FI

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jcbrock
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Re: Clutch cable adjustment - '78

Post by jcbrock » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:51 pm

Do you still have the plastic nosecone shift ball? Ours is broken and I'm going to do an engine drop to replace it this winter with a steel one. That might be something to think about. Colin also suggested I think about a mainshaft bearing thrust plate, and I am thinking about it.
'76 Type II Station Wagon - in the family since new!
Corvallis, OR

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Amskeptic
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Re: Clutch cable adjustment - '78

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:12 am

THall wrote:My engine and transmission are currently out and I had the flywheel resurfaced, installed a new clutch disc and replaced the main shaft seal in hopes of solving my slippage issues once and for all.

My current question is should I remove the transmission nose cone to have a peek inside just to see if anything needs attention? Not sure if that would be considered a standard maintenance practice?

I should also mention that while I had the mated engine and tranny on the platform I built to move it around, which is about 6 inches off the ground, the tranny side being slightly unbalanced tipped back and hit the concrete. I was able to partially slow it down, but it did hit the floor with a slight impact. It landed on the bottom of the tranny case at the nose cone seam. Don't know if that would in itself be cause for concern, but thought it worth mentioning. Or, maybe for that reason alone I should have a look inside?

Thanks
If you do not see evidence of distortion on the outside of the transaxle, the fall is not likely to have had an impact (get it?) on the behavior of the transmission. If a new leak shows up at that joint, then yer screwedish.
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 116,898 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 84,465 miles

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THall
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Location: Verona, Wisconsin
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Transmission nose cone

Post by THall » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:11 pm

I've decided I'm going to remove the nose cone to check the condition of the components within. Having never done this, are there any precautions I should take while attempting this procedure? Such as...

1. Does it matter what gear it's in?

2. My engine and tranny are currently mated. Is it ok that the tranny will be horizontal?

3. Will any of the parts want to fall out when pulling off the nose cone that I'd need to be aware of?

4. Will I need to position a receptacle to catch gear oil? Not sure if this is full of fluid?

Any other words of wisdom you may be able to enlighten me with?

Thank you!
'78 Westy 2.0 FI

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