Disheartening.

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ruckman101
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Disheartening.

Post by ruckman101 » Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:24 pm

Nearly $600 to rebuild my transaxle because it was popping out of fourth gear, and surprise, it still does. Sigh. What else could be causing this? The linkage? Undo the two bolts and slide the shift rod assembly closer to the transaxle?


neal
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Bleyseng
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by Bleyseng » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:41 am

Your shiftlinkage has to be re-adjusted allowing for it to slide back into the tranny for more engagement of 2nd/4th gears.
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Amskeptic
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:12 am

Bleyseng wrote:Your shiftlinkage has to be re-adjusted allowing for it to slide back into the tranny for more engagement of 2nd/4th gears.
Not the way it works, Bleyseng.
The transaxle has "detents" on the internal shift rails that make damn sure that the shifter forks snap into precise alignment with synchronizer hub once each gear is engaged. Otherwise, the forks would wear down to samari sword edges in no time. For your hypothesis to have any validity, the fore/aft misadjustment would have to be so grossly out that the detent ball never even makes it to the "trough".
That would render 2nd and reverse botched as well.

Neal, if it is popping out of gear, somebody did not:
a) check half carefully enough the dog teeth on 4th gear,
b) the condition of the keys/slider. If you have worn teeth, any torque applied to the gear overpowers the spring/key detent and "ramps" the slider out of engagement.
c) less likely, the shift fork is not correctly adjusted on the rail

See if you can PM BigBore and ask him what to keep an eye on if/when you bring the transaxle back to the rebuilder.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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ruckman101
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by ruckman101 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:53 am

That sounds like a "no" on adjusting at the stick shift.

neal
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Amskeptic
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:50 pm

ruckman101 wrote:That sounds like a "no" on adjusting at the stick shift.

neal
The gearshift will tell you this:

Grab 2nd or reverse. Once it is in gear, do you feel the shifter still having some fore and aft movement, or does it feel banged against the stops. If it engages 2nd and reverse OK, then the shifter is not the problem.

-----^ resistance --- fore-aft slop

banged against the stop
--------------^
not banged against the stop
----------^--

A subtle test of the shift fork adjustment is to now engage 3rd. Did you feel the resistance of the synchronizer before it pops into place? See if 1st has a similar resistance then pop into place.

IF the below diagram is true, well heck, you still gotta go back in.

1st
---------^--
3rd
------^--- here you would also feel 4th as ------^

How is the synchronizer working on 4th? Does it do anything approaching a grind?
Colin :blackeye: SettledDownNow
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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hambone
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by hambone » Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:04 pm

Could you run the shift rod without any bushings at all, and still not have engagement/popping out of gear issues? I have been wondering how important they are, other than keeping things smooth. It sounds like they have very little effect, which means that most issues of this sort are usually transmission (ie $$$$$$) related....yes?
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ruckman101
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by ruckman101 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:04 pm

The bushings hold the shift rod centered in the tube it rides in.

neal
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hambone
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by hambone » Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:08 pm

I know what they do, just if they can really cause serious trouble if malfunctioning.
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ruckman101
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by ruckman101 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:51 pm

They shouldn't be the issue in this case, as they are new. I replaced them because I had the transaxle out and could. The back one was toast, but I don't notice any difference at this point.

neal
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hambone
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by hambone » Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:29 pm

That sucks. I hope your rebuilder honors his work.
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Amskeptic
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:11 am

hambone wrote:I know what they do, just if they can really cause serious trouble if malfunctioning.
You are correct, they do not have enough effect to be responsible for popping out of gear.
Neal, would you be willing to tell us here or PM me the rebuilder's name?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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hambone
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by hambone » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:18 am

Thanks Colin. I have dealt with a couple transmission issues over the past few years, it's hard to diagnose. They seem to be incredibly durable beasts to last 45 years. But when they start acting up it means $$$$ and no one wants to hear it.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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Amskeptic
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:28 am

hambone wrote:Thanks Colin. I have dealt with a couple transmission issues over the past few years, it's hard to diagnose. They seem to be incredibly durable beasts to last 45 years. But when they start acting up it means $$$$ and no one wants to hear it.
I did have popping out of 3rd in Chloe. $$$ in front of my weary eyes. Stuck in a "bearing retainer plate" from Long Enterprises for $24.00 or something, and it is no longer popping out of 3rd.

This is a possibility with *old* transaxles that have enough bearing slop to make the whole mainshaft bonk back and forth. 3rd is the one that gets knocked out on throttle release with worn or loose mainshaft bearings.

A *rebuild* should have NO mainshaft movement like that. But we do not know yet the whys and wherefores of this particular "overhaul".
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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ruckman101
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by ruckman101 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:50 pm

Called Bret Matney today of Matney Racing who rebuilt the transaxle. He asked if I had bent the nose cone and I assured him I hadn't. He was surprised, as he usually checks the nose pretty careful, but said it was guaranteed, so bring it on back in, and apologized. Going to run Bertha her full 500 miles of break in, at 200 miles currently, then pull it out, giving me a chance to retorque things on the motor and go from there. I do have Bertha's old transaxle with the broken bell-housing I could replace with the bell housing on this one in a worst case scenario. But I'm keeping the faith.


neal
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hambone
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Re: Disheartening.

Post by hambone » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:57 pm

That is good news. I'm sure it will all work out in the end.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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