78 Westy /Bus, tranny/shifter, cant down shift into 2nd

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surfdad
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78 Westy /Bus, tranny/shifter, cant down shift into 2nd

Post by surfdad » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:35 am

OK I am a little stumped and need guidence before I move on. I searched shifter issues here but did not see a down shift issue....so here goes.

History : owned bus for ten years restoring along the way. The bus has always shifted fine. Gear and shifter rods always had a little play but never had issues with moving right into gear. Just had a new remanufactured engine installed (long story). Tranny and shifting mechanism was not touched during the engine install. Test drive at the shop was fine. Once home I began having an issue trying to get the 2nd gear to engage shifting up or down....

Went through the routine (Bentley, Haynes, forums) of checking and refreshing shift rods. I did find the shift coupler cage to be a bit twisted and bushings soft. Replaced the coupler with a good OEM German coupler. I also cleaned and refreshed the front two shift rod bushings with new moly. The bushings were still in good condition so I did not replace them with the cheap after market parts. Same with the shift rod O-ring bushing.....Original harder and thicker than replacement.

I cleaned and re-lubed the gear shift lever and shift rod cup. I have reinstalled following all the directions from the manuals several times with mixed results. On all occassions I could go into second gear with engin off. However, on one install I had no second gear when out for test......reinstalled and adjusted and can now shift all the way up with no issues, I can down shift into 3rd but can not down shift into 2nd. It just wont go in regardless how much I slow down. I have the same results regardless of the installation of the quick shift plate or not.


My question is ....Should I continue to work on adjustment? If so is there a trick I am missing.

Or does this issue sound as if I should be looking more toward the tranny ?

Any guidence would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Neal
Neal
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Randy in Maine
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Re: 78 Westy /Bus, tranny/shifter, cant down shift into 2nd

Post by Randy in Maine » Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:38 am

Quick question....

How much clutch freeplay do you have?
79 VW Bus

surfdad
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Re: 78 Westy /Bus, tranny/shifter, cant down shift into 2nd

Post by surfdad » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:40 am

How do i define "Clutch Freeplay" Would that be how far I depress the clutch before it disengages?

If that is a correct definition, My clutch disengages when I press one third /one half of the way in. The clutch does not seem extremely shallow or deep.
Neal
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Jivermo
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Re: 78 Westy /Bus, tranny/shifter, cant down shift into 2nd

Post by Jivermo » Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:30 pm

Stop downshifting. I did, after Colin's first visit. Out on a test drive, during the early course where I made the foolish assumption that it was the BUS that was being tested...Colin says to me, "stop downshifting."
"Why?", I asked.
"Because brakes are much cheaper than clutches and transmissions."
I now have about 4500 downshift free miles on my bus.

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Randy in Maine
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Re: 78 Westy /Bus, tranny/shifter, cant down shift into 2nd

Post by Randy in Maine » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:00 am

Sorry I am late. Lost the interweb at the house yesterday due to high winds taking down some cable lines.

Clutch freeplay is the distrance you can push down on the clutch pedal before it actually does something. I don't have my Bentley manual right handy but I think you want about 3/4". You may need to adjust you clutch cable to meet that specification.
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Amskeptic
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Re: 78 Westy /Bus, tranny/shifter, cant down shift into 2nd

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:42 pm

surfdad wrote:OK I am a little stumped
issue trying to get the 2nd gear to engage shifting up or down....
Should I continue to work on adjustment? If so is there a trick I am missing.
Neal, I did a write-up about the spring-loaded shifter installed in all VWs from 1976 on up.

The spring-loaded shifter eats up all developing tolerances and will rob you of the movement required to find your shift gates.

Here is what you do:

engine off
GET IT INTO SECOND GEAR
Even if you have to press down the shifter as though you are on your way to reverse, find 2nd gear. Test by starting the engine briefly and letting out the clutch a bit just enough to see that the engine tries to make the car move forward.
If the engine bogs down too easily and tries to move forward, you might be in 4th, so try again for that "2nd gear feeling".

LOOSEN SHIFTER HOUSING
Only enough to allow it to slide

ADJUST STOP PLATE
Adjust the stop plate to "sloppy". That means, push the stop plate left as per Bentley until it contacts the shifter, yes, but now wiggle the shifter sideways until you see the stop plate kick lightly back towards the right passenger side 2mm. We need the stop plate to give you more room to overcome the "stacked tolerances" as you perform the 3rd-to-2nd downshift. Tighten bolts here, not too much.

PERFORM ENGINE-OFF DOWNSHIFT
From 3rd to 2nd, make it as natural as possible. Keep it here, foot on the clutch, start engine, re-check that the engine tries to move the car forward. If it tries to go backwards, you are unfortunately too sloppy. Repeat above with only 1.5mm kick right.

SNUG BOLTS, TEST DRIVE, AND REPORT BACK.
Colin
(if you actually pull off above adjustment to perfection and 2nd really does disappear, you may need new hockey stick ball/bushings (and recommended bearing retainer plate . . . we do that here at Itinerant Air-Cooled Mobile Laboratories)
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,155 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,820 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 98,380 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,885 miles

surfdad
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Re: 78 Westy /Bus, tranny/shifter, cant down shift into 2nd

Post by surfdad » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:15 pm

I will certainly give this try and report my results. I am happy to still be in adjustment territory and not the dreaded...."Oh No" arena
Neal
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surfdad
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Re: 78 Westy /Bus, tranny/shifter, cant down shift into 2nd

Post by surfdad » Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:20 pm

I thought I saw your post on TS regarding the spring altering adjustment techniques but it did not click.

My son and I went out and followed your instructions step by step and voila....it now down shifts into second when it should.
We went for a long (cold) drive and were able to downshift when turning or powering through the tighter curves.

Thank you

Neal
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Amskeptic
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Re: 78 Westy /Bus, tranny/shifter, cant down shift into 2nd

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:13 pm

surfdad wrote:voila....it now down shifts into second when it should.
Thank you
Neal
You are welcome . . . now what "spring altering adjustment" are you speaking of? I tore out that neutral gate spring on the Road Warrior in 2002, and I tore it out of the BobD just this last September . . .
Colin :blackeye:
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,155 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,820 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 98,380 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,885 miles

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