IRS Rear Wheel Bearing Repack/Replace

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IRS Rear Wheel Bearing Repack/Replace

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:05 pm

IRS Rear Wheel Bearing Replacement (that means CV axles, not swing axles)

The rear wheel bearings in our VWs are (were) solid pieces of good German engineering. Do not undertake to replace them unless you know that they are bad. Better to repack them every 30,000 miles and make sure that they are well-lubricated and have decent seals. They have been known (personally) to last up to 588,238 miles. Bad rear wheel bearings growl and/or develop noticeable play. If you must replace your rear wheel bearings, you owe it to yourself, you owe it to the future, you owe it to your Volkswagen, to get only the very finest quality bearings available. Pay the price, or you will pay the price.

You can do a quick test.
Chock the front wheels fore and aft. Do a solid serious job of chocking here.
Release e-brake.
Use a bottle jack under the diagonal arm at the wheel bearing housing and jack just enough to lift the rear wheel an inch or so. Do not jack the car itself to raise wheel, that would put the CV's at an uncomfortable angle.

Image

Spin the wheel by hand to see that the brake adjustment is not too draggy.
Start engine and select 3rd gear. Gently let out the clutch and rev engine just a bit while in gear, declutch and listen to the rumble as the wheel coasts down to a stop.
(not to nag you, but be careful not to allow the torque/gyroscopic forces to topple the jack. if the spinning wheel contacts the ground, it will want to move the car through the garage through the flower beds through the swing set and into the creek, so just step on the clutch and the brake pedal if it gets squirrely,'kay?)
If the spinning wheel sounds like a nice whirring, yer good.
If the spinning wheel sounds like:

a junky old Frigidaire washer on the spin cycle,
a subway train coming into the station,
a bad jet engine that reverberates through the cabin,

you may tentatively conclude that your rear wheel bearings need to be replaced.

Shut off engine and leave transmission in neutral. If your wheel rotates quietly, we still want to check for play. Grab a crowbar or large flat bladed screwdriver and attempt to lift the wheel. You might feel a mild click which is acceptable. A clunk is not. If you are a clunker, you need to be on-alert for a bearing that is loose inside the wheel bearing housing, but first try to secure the axle nut to the correct torques of:
bug ghia type 3 . . . 217 ft/lbs + advance to very next cotter pin install point
bus . . . 253 ft/lbs + advance to very next cotter pin install point

Replace rear wheel bearings that are noisy and/or clunky. Do NOT get all excitable about replacing them just because they're high mileage or old, you don't know nuthin about "high mileage" or "old", ya pup.

You will need a total of 4 bearing seals,
* 2 roller bearings (outer)
* 2 inner wheel bearings
* Type 1/3 bearing retainer seal kit
* a tub of high quality grease (Valvoline Semi-Synthetic or Full-Synthetic will do)
* solid serious circlip pliers
* long brass drift punch with a flat circular end, and a heavy ball peen hammer

Please lay out your parts in the order of disassembly! There are variations between models/years and it is your responsibility to keep track. I use a rule of thumb that says "towards-the-inside" is laid down, with "outside" pointing up to the sky.

Step 1
Back off the brake adjustment star wheels about 6 turns each.

Step 2
Remove old cotter pin. Install 46mm (bus) 36mm (others) 1/2 drive socket, breaker bar, and big ol' cheater, or your trick hammerable big nut remover and loosen the nut. With the cheater pipe, I used the engine to loosen the nut in a very civilized gentle manner, just by sticking it in reverse gear for the left side, 1st gear for the right, and crept the clutch with little bursts of engine backwards or forwards no more than a foot or two. This method requires a short 1x4 board under the cheater pipe end atop another 2x4 board to act as the anti-dig-into-the-ground bearing. (note that I did not use any such things out in the forest) Newer buses with the skinny axle nut flats may not allow you to use the engine because the socket will just keep falling off. You may find the nut is on very very tight. Keep a patient persuasion going, and it will eventually let go.

Image

Step 3 Jack up car at torsion bar tube/spring plate cover/lower spring plate stop until the wheel is off the ground. Stick a jack stand at the torsion tube directly under the frame rail and lower the jack enough to load the jack stand. Keep opposite side wheel on ground and maintain your solid chock job on whichever front wheel is under the greater load. Shove the car around a bit to settle/test it.


Step 4 Remove Driveshaft
If you are going to avail yourself of this opportunity to clean and repack the CVs, take the entire driveshaft out. If not, just unbolt the outer CV joint and wrap it with a plastic shopping bag and hang it up out of the way with a bungee/coat hanger/whatever. Clean the CV flange area NOW, get rid of the goopy grease for a more hygienic job.

Step 5
Remove Brake Drum (Types 1/3 + bus through '70), or brake drum and hub assembly ('71 Type3 and Bus on up). If it resists you, apply PB Blaster or favorite rust penetrant to the splines, then install the axle nut (our temporary thread protector) until it is flush with the end of the stub axle. Tap the end of the axle shaft directly with your ball peen hammer, no wood, we want the vibration (heard as ringing). Do it until you are bored, then re-apply a little spritz (too much will contaminate brake shoes) of rust penetrant just to the splines. Remove axle nut. Make sure e-brake is off! and each brake adjustment star is six teeth towards loose. If you trust your jack/jackstand job, get under the car and stomp the tire outwards, rotate, stomp, rotate, stomp, do a little double stomping, and be mindful that you do not want to go ape or you will be this year's winner of the Darwin Award. You WILL remember to grease the splines when you re-install the drum . . .

Once the drum is off, you can start doing forensics. It is a chicken/egg conundrum.
If axle nut was NOT properly tightened at last assembly, the below pointed-out outer spacer can rotate between the drum and the inner race of the outer bearing. This makes the spacer and the drum and the inner race of the outer bearing all slightly shorter. So, the axle nut gets looser. Every single corner, entrance ramp, curve, or swerve, beats these parts and they get more and more worn and loose. For example, here is why the rear axle nut was loosening on my bus. You will note that eventually the outer edge of the brake drum was grinding against the backing plate and showering the brakes with metal particles. I made a new spacer out of a generator shim to compensate for this drum wear, and it has held up for 27,000 glorious fun-filled miles so far:

Image

Step 6
Remove Stub Axle
Tap out the stub axle with the ball peen hammer and a block of wood against the end of the axle/nut. If it refuses to budge, re-install the axle nut AGAIN and make it flush with the end of the axle so you do not distort the axle or mash the axle nut threads. This axle steel is not especially hard, be mindful. Now hit with authority and precision. You will see the axle begin to drive in towards the wheel bearing housing. Remove the axle nut and tap stub axle free. Look at this mechanical art. The weight of the car comes through the wheel bearing housing and is transmitted to the splines where the drum (pre'71) or the hub ('71 up) transfers the weight to the wheel. There is a "bending moment" due to the fact that the wheel is outboard of the bearings (modified wheels with greater offsets can wreak havoc on them). The outboard roller bearings are the real weight carrying bearings, but they have no resistance to side loads. The inner ball bearings handle the side-to-side loads. It is critical that we have a sandwhich of metal from the axle nut through the outer spacer (pre'71)through the roller bearing inner race, through the inner spacer, to the ball bearing inner race which is shouldered against the stub axle.

Image

Note that there are three parts visible inside of the seal area. Outer spacer ring (green arrow) is found on Type 1/3 and pre-'71 buses. It serves as a thrust piece between the drum and the inner race of the outer roller bearing, and it serves as the seal interface.
Later buses with the composite brake drums do not use this spacer because the hub itself (with the lug studs) serves as the thrust piece and seal interface. The inner race of outer roller bearing is shown with red arrow, inner spacer in purple. The inner spacer both transmits thrust forces and helps to keep the grease in the housing in full contiguous contact with outer and inner bearing rollers/balls.

Image

Step 7
Remove Outer Spacer/Seals
The outer spacer on the earlier buses can be stuck in place, but a small screwdriver can catch the edge next to the bearing race - rotate spacer and pull simultaneously.
On Types 1/3, the spacer can be freed by unbolting the bearing retainer cover (four 13mm bolts). You may need to disassemble brake hardware to get to them. There is an o-ring for the cover, the seal is pressed into it. All buses will need you to pry the seal out of the housing. Heck, everybody go pry the inner seal out, too. It is difficult to find a pry point on the inside of the bus wheel bearing housing, but a big socket can be wedged in there to use as an effective fulcrum for your Big Screwdriver. I used a brake adjusting spoon:

Image


Image

Step 8
Remove Circlips - inner and outer on early bus, just inner on the others. Clean the area so you can see exactly where the edges are and not be slipping and sliding in gobs o grease. Note the distance between the edges of the circlip before you attempt to remove it, so you can make sure that the circlips are fully seated when reinstalling. Please . . . be deliberate and slow and strong here. Insert the plier bits fully, squarely, and keep the pressure on as you compress the circlip. Do not try to manipulate the circlip in any direction, just focus on getting the edges to meet each other. Once they contact, you are guaranteed free of the groove enough to do a little rotate-n-remove. Keep an eye on the engagement, and keep a hand shrouding the circlip so you can catch/deflect it should it attempt to launch into low Earth orbit. The inner circlip is a bit more difficult. You can partially pinch it just enough to set up a rotation inside the groove to move the edges to where it is most comfortable for you to get a solid grip and squeeze. Do I have to tell you to protect your face from a potential circlip bullet?


Image

Step 9 Remove Outer Roller Bearing
. . . if it hasn't already fallen out. Some roller bearings are captive to their outer races (usually the Type 1/3), others are captive to their inner races (usually the buses). That means you must tap out the outer race + rollers on the former, while the latter can have rollers just sliding on out. Remove the inside spacer and start scooping out handfuls of grease. Knock down the greasy mess inside the wheel bearing housing so you can see what you are doing. You may be uncomfortable, it might be dark and greasy in there, the drift might be a little short, the hammer may have already bashed your thumb, but too bad. You must accurately line up the flat end of the drift on the edge of the race and tap firmly without gouging the relatively soft wheel bearing housing. Sometimes you will see little indentations in the shoulder of the wheel bearing housing that allow you to catch a good chunk of the actual bearing race you are trying to hit. You will need to reposition the drift in 180* increments interspersed with 90* increments around the circumference of the race. If it is tough going, be happy, your bearings are firmly supported. Mine skidded halfway out then only got sticky near the circlip groove.

Image

If you are doing only a rear wheel bearing repack on late model bus, do not bother the outer race. It is cheap stamped steel and will be destroyed if you try to remove it. If you are replacing bearings today, go ahead and knock it out with a drift just like everybody else. Early bus has a beautiful solid outer race that you can tap out and reinstall as necessary. I removed my early bus outer roller bearing race to see if it was rotating inside the housing (a bad thing). Was it ever . . .

Image

Step 10 Remove Inner Ball Bearing
Be sure that you are only hitting the outer race of the inner bearing, on its barely discernible edge in the darkness. Repack-Only People, if you slip and whale on the ball bearing cage, yer out, you'll have to get a new bearing.


Image

Step 11 Clean Everything
. . . in the photograph and the wheel bearing housing. Look at the nice cross-hatch 320 grit emory cloth sanding of the stub axle where the bearings' inner races seat and where the seals ride. If this is just a repack, slosh the bearings in your chosen cleaning solvent. I was in a parched National Forest in the Sierras outside of Sacramento CA on a 104* day, so I used gasoline . . . and a toothbrush, and a can of carb spray for the final rinse. If you are repacking your old bearings, use a toothbrush under the surface of your gasoline to cut down on spray, and brush vigorously as you turn the bearing to help rotate all the old grease out into the gasoline. Once the bearing looks to be grease-free, hit it with carb spray and chase the remainder of old grease out from the crevasses. If you have compressed air, you can do a thorough air rinse. Do not spin the bearing with air. Rotate your cleaned ball bearing with sideways load in both directions between the inner race and outer race and feel for any imperfection. Go stick the roller bearing in its outer race (in the wheel bearing housing if you are doing a repack only) and check for any rotational imperfection. The outer bearing does not have any sideways resistance, it is only a load-bearing bearing. See how these words work? Look for pits or galling of the actual wear surfaces. If there is any evidence of imperfection, replace the bearing. Smooth the axle nut surface that contacts the drum or hub. Smooth the drum or hub surface that contacts the axle nut. Clean out the threads on the stub axle and clean out the cotter holes. Now you know that there are two cotter holes 90* apart. Clean any and all traces of metal particles when you are done. Clean the splines and work the old grease out of the splines of both the stub axle and the drum or hub. If you see evidence that the inner races have actually worn grooves in their respective seating positions on the stub axle, replace the stub axle. Sorry.

Image

We want to help this engineering work as intended. Bearings are designed to allow motion only on the actual rotational bearing surfaces. They are specially hardened for longevity. We do not want parts that are not supposed to be rotating, acting as bearings. That means we want the inner races to sit still on the stub axle, not rotate against the stub axle. We want the spacer pictured here to be dead still in relation to the stub axle, the drum, and the inner bearing race. If your drum has been rubbing against the backing plate, your spacer (s)(plural pre-71) may be worn too short now, or perhaps the drum itself has gotten pounded out. Replacement spacers are available. These purple surfaces here are all supposed to be at-one with the rotating wheel ..... :

Image

..... while these surfaces are at one with the stationary wheel bearing housing surfaces here in orange:

Image

Here is a photograph of what I was after when I sought to investigate the clunk. This outer roller bearing race was rotating in the wheel bearing housing. You can see rotational streaks, but it was obvious before I could even see it, it took little effort to remove it from the wheel bearing housing:

Image


If you are replacing the bearings, you can always hope that the new bearing will hold a bit tighter, but you can be sure that the housing itself has worn . . . it is the softer metal. There may be arguments against using Loctite (red) to help hold the bearing race from moving in the housing, but I will provide an update sometime in the next couple of decades of how my new bearings fared with Loctite.

Reassembly

Step 12 Lubricate Bearings

You have either new or old bearings that need to be packed with fresh clean grease. Your job is to "paint" every surface then build grease reservoirs surrounding them. No air, no pockets. Grease will literally self-apply when its "reservoir" is in full contact with the rotating surfaces.

Image

Step 13 Install Ball Bearing Circlip and Seal
If you want to use Loctite to help mitigate a loose bearing fit in the housing, clean both the outside of the bearing and the inside of the wheel bearing housing with carb spray just before you apply the Loctite. I used red Loctite as my "installation lubricant" knowing that my wheel bearing housings have not been holding the bearings securely, so I had to work efficiently to get in, get seated, and get the circlip installed before the Loctite might set. From the inside of the wheel bearing housing, just place the bearing against its bore with the identifying numbers facing you, i.e. towards the center of the car, and start tapping at the edge of the outer race only, round and round, easy and lightly. Do not let it cock in the bore. IF YOU DO, reverse your error with gentle corrective taps from the other side. You may not use the inside race in any way to help drive the bearing in. Once it is stuck in the bore and looks straight, you may add some punch. You will hear a change in the song of the hammer blows when it fully seats. Get a good solid insertion of circlip plier bits on the circlip holes. Bring it to the bearing bore and lightly place the as-yet uncompressed circlip against the opening. Squeeze while holding the circlip against the opening. It will slip in the bore drama-free. Now get it to the groove. If your pliers hang up at some obstruction or pop out, no matter. Once the circlip is in the bore, it will find the groove. Get the edges to fully separate to your remembered installed width, proof that the circlip is fully home. Stick a light coat of grease over the exposed bearing cage and circlip. Get your new seal and fill its cavity between the metal shell and the lips with grease. Think "heat sink" or "mastic", this grease will help to draw heat from the edges of the seal lips for greater longevity. Tap or press the seal in, flush is fine, maybe a little more is fine too.

Image

You will note that Volkswagen has always instructed us to pack the housings (or front wheel hubs) such that there is a contiguous grease contact from outside to inside bearing. As the grease gets used or flung from the rollers or balls, it will draw in grease from the housing if it is packed sufficiently to have full contact with the inside surfaces of the bearing. Warning: Do not stuff the hubs, we are more interested in just having a line of grease continuous across the bearings, but a little space is good between the stationary and rotating parts for heat expansion.

Step 14 Pack Housing/Install Stub Axle
Glob handfuls of grease into the housing and pat/smooth it down. You want to have it filled down to the balls/rollers level. Use the inside spacer to check your depth.
Now carefully insert the Very Clean stub axle (with the Type 1/3 inner spacer chamfer facing the transaxle) into the inner race of the ball bearing minding your manners as you get the threads past the seal lips. You will need to tap, please do several thousand light taps instead of four sledge hammer blows. I used a visegrip and a VW Rabbit cylinder head bolt driver to let me tap tap tap the stub axle in until it wanted to go no further.

Image

Insert the inside spacer (it has no orientation) onto the stub axle and check to see that the cavity has no gruesome voids of greaselessness.

Image

This here is what "Too Much" looks like. :

Image

Step 15 Install Outer Bearing/Seal
Clean the seat for the outer bearing outer race. If you are going to use Loctite to help hold the race in place, clean the seat and the outside of the bearing race with carb spray. Tap in your new roller bearing outer race with the numbers etched on its edge facing you. Late model buses have to be careful, that new outer race is far flimsier than the older ones. Tap it until it seats against the shoulder in the wheel bearing housing. Early buses have the circlip to install now, later buses do not. Buses will have roller bearings captive to the inner race to tap onto the stub axle, while Type 1/3 have the rollers captive to the outer race.

Type 1/3 need to install a new seal in the bearing retainer plate before slipping on new o-ring between the bearing retainer and the wheel bearing housing. Point the (cleaned out) drain hole down. If you took off the brake backing plate position it, then torque the four bolts to 43 ft/lbs. Grease the lips of the seal, tap in the inner race of the roller bearing, then the spacer with the chamfer facing inwards.

Buses install outer seal with the cavity between the shell and the lips filled with grease for heat transfer. As you apply the seal to the bore, wipe away excess grease blobbed out from the roller bearing. A little air space here is good. Pre-71 buses can install the outer spacer/seal interface with the rounded edge facing inward, like this:


Image



Step 16 Install Driveshaft and Clean Up

For the quik'n'dirtys, pull CV joint outwards and give a gob of grease to the center to replenish what you cleaned out of the stub axle flange:
a)*if you're the person who greased it last, and
b) you have the exact same grease
If you are clueless to what is in there, and you do not have the time to repack, you can go straight to assembly if there is enough grease to fill the joint when held flush flat.
Otherwise, you have done your CVs and the whole driveshaft is ready to hook up?

If you have the correct lock plates and little striped lock washers, 25 ft/lbs torque on your 3/8 drive 12 point driver or 6mm allen head driver FULLY SEATED IN THE CV BOLTS is achievable by holding the tire in a one-armed hug and giving the 3/8 drive 18" long ratchet handle a nice pull. That's it. Double-check every single one when you are done. Really. Come back up to the outside axle area and
clean excess grease away from the axle shaft and seal in the brake area, we do not want grease dripping on your brake shoes and we do not want grease becoming a brake dust magnet. We do want grease on the splines. If you have any brake work to do, now is the time. I recommend as always to lubricate and clean brake adjuster stars/threads and dry sand the brake drum friction surfaces with a 90* cross hatch, dry-wipe off all dust with a clean paper towel, and lightly sand the brake shoes, dry clean as well.

Step 17 Install Wheel and Tighten Axle Nut Correctly
Install brake drum/wheel onto the splined axle and bring it home. Thread the axle nut on as firmly as you can. I use the breaker bar and cheater pipe resting on the ground to the LEFT of me, hold the socket, and turn the wheel/tire counter-clockwise as far as I can muster. That is good enough to then adjust the rear brakes 3 clicks alternating until the wheel is almost impossible to turn. Go up and punch the brake pedal a few times, yank the e-brake out then in a few times, go see if the wheel loosened up, and finish off with two or three clicks back for a mild-scrape-but-no-drag turning. Now set the e-brake firmly by using the footbrake to get the main push, then let the e-brake hold that.

** we want that nut as close to final tight as possible before we put a load on the bearings!**

I weigh 155 lbs. For a bug or Type 3, I stand on the breaker bar 15" from the center or the axle nut for a total of 207 ft/lbs. For a bus, I stand 18" from the center of the axle for 232 ft/lbs, just stand there on the breaker and let the nut slowly tighten.
Now drop car off jack/jackstands. Re-check e-brake tightness with suspension settled.
Again, use the footbrake to apply the parking brake force, then just let the cable hold that force (much easier on your car). Stick the transmission in 1st gear.

You may be feeling uneasy with how easy it was to achieve the correct torques. Your axle nuts are just shy of the factory torque, so go back and just stand on the breaker bar again, maybe an inch further out for the 36mm nut and two inches out for the bus 46mm nut. For me that would make new torques of 219 and 258 ft/lbs. Real easy.
BUT
now we have to advance to the next cotter pin opportunity and no more. The axle shaft has two drillings for the cotter pin and the nut has either six or ten castle openings. You MUST catch the first alignment in the tighter direction. Clean the area of any grease, look through the end of the axle shaft and you will see the "hole cross". Now you get to stand on the breaker bar and dance the nut forward to the first chance you get to put in the cotter pin. Get it so the new cotter pin can just slip on down. Do NOT bash the cotter pin all flattened and mushed on the nut. Just spread the ends to a easy 45* to 90* loose fit. You will be coming back here, after all, in just a couple hundred miles, to re-check the torque.

Step 18millionbillionthousand Put On The Hubcap.
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: IRS Rear Wheel Bearing Repack/Replace

Post by asiab3 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:25 pm

This is such a wonderful article. Thanks again for taking the time.

I'm having a little difficulty understanding where my axle play is coming from. With the wheel an inch off the ground, I can push and pull the tire/drum assembly in and out more than I feel is comfortable. Is there a wear limit for runout in the rear? In the front we can easily adjust for this with the 6mm allen lock bolt-through-nut, but what adjustment or repair does the rear require?
('69 bus, stock)
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: IRS Rear Wheel Bearing Repack/Replace

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:39 pm

asiab3 wrote:This is such a wonderful article. Thanks again for taking the time.

I'm having a little difficulty understanding where my axle play is coming from. With the wheel an inch off the ground, I can push and pull the tire/drum assembly in and out more than I feel is comfortable. Is there a wear limit for runout in the rear? In the front we can easily adjust for this with the 6mm allen lock bolt-through-nut, but what adjustment or repair does the rear require?
('69 bus, stock)

Get on this right away.

Look at the pink in the photograph of parts laid out. Thrust surfaces can and do wear. Look at your drums for any evidence of fresh wear where they get shoved into the spacer.

There are new center spacers available I hear, but the metallurgy may not be too special. Try to rustle up outer spacers too, they serve also as the seal riding surface. I made a washer out of a fan shim I think it was, because my newly re-torqued axle nut allowed the drum to grind on the backing plate. There should be no side-to-side (push-n-pull) play at all. Check after you have fully retorqued the axle nut to no more than 253 ft/lbs + advance to next hole.

If you do replace bearings, it may help this issue, but be alert for outer bearing race sliding in housing.
If you have this play (orange above) you need to improvise or find fresh wheel bearing housings if it is bad. Parts are drying up, get on it.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: IRS Rear Wheel Bearing Repack/Replace

Post by asiab3 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:41 pm

Getting on it now :salute:

There was no drum wear when I pulled them last month for brakes. I will check this time as well, and diligently inspect all surfaces once I get the bearings out. Is it realistic to try to complete this in a weekend having never gone past the rear brake pads before? I have good used inner and outer spacers on the way, and all new bearings and seals standing by. My uncle tried giving me some used stub axles last year. I'm going to go take him up on those just in case :thumbright:

Ever thought about these for the outer races that spin in the housing?
http://www.skf.com/group/products/seals ... index.html

This forums is so great. It just needs a 2014 Itinerary page............
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: IRS Rear Wheel Bearing Repack/Replace

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:24 pm

asiab3 wrote: Ever thought about these for the outer races that spin in the housing?
Nope. Something about that lip would not allow us to install the circlip. I may try a modified Diet Coke can shim before I send out a S.O.S. call for a new bearing housing.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: IRS Rear Wheel Bearing Repack/Replace

Post by asiab3 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:28 pm

Ouch was Chloe's wear that bad?

FWIW, BustedBus has a set of early bay housings in stock, 79$ each side (with spacers!) in case you or someone really needs them. I don't right now, but it's nice to know the option is there.
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: IRS Rear Wheel Bearing Repack/Replace

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:03 pm

asiab3 wrote:Ouch was Chloe's wear that bad?

FWIW, BustedBus has a set of early bay housings in stock, 79$ each side (with spacers!) in case you or someone really needs them. I don't right now, but it's nice to know the option is there.
Chloe is likely to wear to that bad with the half-million miles I am expecting to pile up. I will do the diet coke can shims when the bearings can be removed by hand. Then I will order the last original German used wheel bearing housings in the land.

How did Busted Bus describe/mention the spacers? As part of the wheel bearing housings, as additional to the wheel bearing housings, as part of the "complete assembly"?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Location: San Diego, CA
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Re: IRS Rear Wheel Bearing Repack/Replace

Post by asiab3 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:08 pm

Comes with:
…old bearings, spacers, seals/races. No stub axles.
We have them all the time.
They didn't seem too talkative,

I did order the last of the early bay spacer sets (inside and outside for L and R) from Ken at The Bus Co, and I'd be happy to share them if mine are in equal shape.
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: IRS Rear Wheel Bearing Repack/Replace

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:23 pm

asiab3 wrote: They didn't seem too talkative,
No . . . . . .
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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hambone
Post-Industrial Non-Secular Mennonite
Location: Portland, Ore.
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Re: IRS Rear Wheel Bearing Repack/Replace

Post by hambone » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:48 am

Wagens West down in Salem, OR also sells that sort of thing FWIW.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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asiab3
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Re: IRS Rear Wheel Bearing Repack/Replace

Post by asiab3 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:15 am

Did my left side (which was worse with play) this afternoon. I was ecstatic wrapping up, as this was the first procedure/fix I've needed, researched, and executed with no trip to the parts store, no complications, no hacks, and a result I'm genuinely happy with. Was that, dare I say it, fun? I believe so, and I can't wait to do the right side this week.


Well I guess one thing had me baffled the whole time…

HOW DID YOU DO THAT WITH A CAMERA???

You're a wizard, you know that, Colin? =D>


And for those of you that like symptoms & solutions:
Last month I heard a clicking in my left rear drum, found the castle nut loose hanging on by just the cotter pin. Torqued it in place cause I didn't know any better. Weird sounds from left rear have been getting worse for the last two weeks. I found a bit of push/pull play in the axle assembly, felt with the wheel off the ground. Once the assembly was apart, I micrometer-measured my outer spacer at a few thousandths of an inch under my two spares, so I put a good used OG one in. Inner spacer measured exactly the same as my spares. Drum had barely any wear. When I spun the outer bearing by hand in the housing before I removed it, it made a nasty grinding sound that wasn't audible with the "wheel off the ground 3rd gear test" that Colin described above. It felt rough like a ratchet wrench full of sand. I skateboarded enough as a kid to know that bearing was toast. Maybe it wasn't audible in the test because it is load bearing and the wheel was off the ground? Either way, once I got the new bearings and spacer in and greased up (there was NOT a lot of grease in there,) I noticed less play even before I achieved the final torque.
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: IRS Rear Wheel Bearing Repack/Replace

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:09 am

asiab3 wrote: HOW DID YOU DO THAT WITH A CAMERA???

When I spun the outer bearing by hand nasty grinding sound wasn't audible with the "wheel off the ground 3rd gear test" that Colin described above.
I did work, wiped off my hands, took picture, did some more work, wiped off my hands, took picture, did some more work, wiped off my hands, took picture, did some more work, wiped off my hands, took picture, did some more work, wiped off my hands, took picture, did some more . . . hey, where you going? I'm only up to picture #5 . . .

I am mystified as to why a bearing that feels rough would not give you a clear audible. Do we have an agreement on what a bad bearing sounds like at speed? I described it as a bad Frigidaire washer tub bearing on the spin cycle, is that too far out? A subway train just before it hits the station also works. It is a smooth sound due to the speed, but it is too much sound, sort of a woo-woo-woo-woo-woo-woo.

Glad you feel the triumphant high that goes with being your vehicle's caretaker, add an amazing view in the middle of nowhere, and you're on my page.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: IRS Rear Wheel Bearing Repack/Replace

Post by asiab3 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:24 pm

Amskeptic wrote: I am mystified as to why a bearing that feels rough would not give you a clear audible. Do we have an agreement on what a bad bearing sounds like at speed? I described it as a bad Frigidaire washer tub bearing on the spin cycle, is that too far out? A subway train just before it hits the station also works. It is a smooth sound due to the speed, but it is too much sound, sort of a woo-woo-woo-woo-woo-woo.
We have an agreement now, I think. Both my wheels had the play, and they both had the same rumble off the ground last week. Today I gave the fresh side a listen, and what a difference! I am naive in the ways of the Frigidaire and subway, but I would compare the old (still untouched) side to a garbage disposal running empty, and the fresh side to a really smooth and quiet whir; definitely a noticeable difference. My issue was both wheels sounded bad, so I didn't have a good reference until I heard the difference just now.
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Jaffa
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Re: IRS Rear Wheel Bearing Repack/Replace

Post by Jaffa » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:31 am

Hi Colin,

Just about to do this for my 74 Westfalia. The ball bearing I have are the sealed 2RS type. I recall somewhere that these seals should be removed so the bearing can be packed with grease? Is this correct.

Cheers,
Craig
Craig

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Amskeptic
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Re: IRS Rear Wheel Bearing Repack/Replace

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:11 am

Jaffa wrote:Hi Colin,

Just about to do this for my 74 Westfalia. The ball bearing I have are the sealed 2RS type. I recall somewhere that these seals should be removed so the bearing can be packed with grease? Is this correct.

Cheers,
Craig
I personally would not use sealed bearings here. Either get the correct application-specific bearings or rip those seals out and wash the bearings clean of the grease in them so you can have only the grease that is used to fill the hubs.
Colin
(where/how/why did you get referred to sealed bearings??)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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