again with the throwout bearing?!

Moderators: Amskeptic, Sluggo

User avatar
hambone
Post-Industrial Non-Secular Mennonite
Location: Portland, Ore.
Status: Offline

Re: again with the throwout bearing?!

Post by hambone » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:28 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

That spring is pretty durable, I'd be surprised if that was the trouble.
Assuming you have the correct clutch cable, it does seem like the pressure plate isn't doing it's business. I had a couple fingers fail on my Sachs PP, causing similar symptoms to yours. If you looked at at from above, you could see a misalignment at the throwout bearing ring.
Could some funny business be occurring at the nose cone? I've never been that far into a trans. That, or something internal like shifter fork.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

User avatar
chachi
Old School!
Location: ne pdx, or.
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: again with the throwout bearing?!

Post by chachi » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:59 pm

...
1974 transporter panel, 2.0 dual solex
1991 vanagon NAHT, RJE 2.3

User avatar
chachi
Old School!
Location: ne pdx, or.
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: again with the throwout bearing?!

Post by chachi » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:25 pm

...
1974 transporter panel, 2.0 dual solex
1991 vanagon NAHT, RJE 2.3

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: again with the throwout bearing?!

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:42 pm

chachi wrote:what if i didn't have the correct clutch cable? again, this is a six rib i'm trying to put in a '74, and it is clearly longer than the original five rib (i measure about a half inch). long enough so that in the bottom gears, 2, 4 and R, i'm physically hitting a crossbeam forward of the transmission with the shift coupling cage.

before i replaced the donut in the nose cone, i could, without the clutch, wrench it through its gears and get it into neutral. but now, seemingly, it won't go actually into neutral at all.
Can you plan your course of questioning here?

I don't know where to begin.
i will say that the pressure plate on this engine looks pretty worn. i'm kicking myself now that i didn't just change it.
What is a "worn pressure plate" ?
also, can that big spring that is on the outside, forcing the actuating arm back, be too worn?
Why? What makes a spring "worn"?
i get the shifting nut and wire back in and i can feel the gears, but the transmission is in gear the whole time,
Then you honestly can't "feel the gears". What is "feel the gears". Do you mean that you can feel a discrete engagement in each of the four positions? Or do you just feel some resistance under the car as the shift coupler cage rides over the torsion tube or whatever you were saying?
i don't have the cv linkage hooked up and can see the trans-side dishes spin. but the clutch is more worrying to me.
CV linkages? trans side dishes? We need to speak the same language to communicate. If you have the least bit of an issue with the clutch disengaging, not having the CV joints bolted up absolutely works against you. The transmission needs the drag of the output shaft at a full stop, like any fully assembled car would have. You are trying to engage gears with cold transmission oil and no driveshafts? Forget it.
now i'm here, which is about where i had it before, way way in, almost to max
There is no "max" to it. I don't actually know if you meant you wanted to replace the "pressure plate" further up or "clutch plate", but for the record, if you do put in a new clutch plate, the pressure plate fingers will actually be much further in towards the flywheel, and you WILL have to take up more clutch cable slack. As the clutch wears, the fingers move out, taking away free play.

So at any rate, I have seen far worse at the wing nut than that. If you have adjusting room, take it! You have adjusting room in the photograph. I see threads out the front of the lever. You are aware that you can shim the bowden tube where it goes through the side bracket of the transaxle, yes? A couple of thick washers will add a little length/sag to the bowden tube and restore your adjustment range on the cable threads.

Do NOT take up any more slack than what is needed to get 1" freeplay. If the clutch is dragging and causing hard shifts (with the driveshafts bolted up), you can't try to make the pedal go further down to "fix" it.

091 transaxles are nice, but don't cram them in without knowing exactly what the issues are. People drill new grub screw holes in the shift rod coming out of the nose cone to bring back correct shifting in an incorrect application. I suggest that you know exactly what you are doing, or find someone who does, before you do anything.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,155 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,820 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 98,380 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,885 miles

User avatar
chachi
Old School!
Location: ne pdx, or.
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: again with the throwout bearing?!

Post by chachi » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:44 pm

...
1974 transporter panel, 2.0 dual solex
1991 vanagon NAHT, RJE 2.3

User avatar
chachi
Old School!
Location: ne pdx, or.
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: again with the throwout bearing?!

Post by chachi » Wed May 01, 2013 6:33 pm

...
1974 transporter panel, 2.0 dual solex
1991 vanagon NAHT, RJE 2.3

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: again with the throwout bearing?!

Post by Amskeptic » Wed May 01, 2013 7:49 pm

chachi wrote:i've been playing with the cluth free play and now have it where it feels right - where it feels like it was set on the bus when i got it (the bus was in a very untouched condition in terms of the drivetrain, if not the body). i had it backed off at one point where i couldn't get it in gear and then backed it out to where the friction point was way too high, so i think i have a good sense of the range and what a few revolutions of the screw will do. and yes, i think it's about an inch of free play.

i'm still nervous about the ToB. i'm afraid to go anywhere for fear i'll pop it again.
"Puppies"? There are puppies in there? Aw just kidding.

There is only one adjustment for clutch freeplay. An inch at the pedal before the release bearing touches the fingers on the pressure plate.

If you are trying to tickle in some just-right adjustment between no disengagement and snapping retainer clips, you have a problem. If the diaphragm fingers are getting worn thin, you have a problem.

Is this engine/transaxle combo a Frankenstein of different years?
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,155 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,820 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 98,380 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,885 miles

User avatar
chachi
Old School!
Location: ne pdx, or.
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: again with the throwout bearing?!

Post by chachi » Thu May 02, 2013 7:03 am

...
1974 transporter panel, 2.0 dual solex
1991 vanagon NAHT, RJE 2.3

User avatar
chachi
Old School!
Location: ne pdx, or.
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: again with the throwout bearing?!

Post by chachi » Tue May 21, 2013 10:32 am

...
1974 transporter panel, 2.0 dual solex
1991 vanagon NAHT, RJE 2.3

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: again with the throwout bearing?!

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:07 am

chachi wrote:sorry if i did not make that clear, but yes, this is a 1.7 (at least that what the code would indicate) that i aquired from some very nice sand railers in Corbet and an 091
your response in my other thred leads me to believe that you feel i am somehow problematic with clutches or somehow otherwise negligent.
Hi. Finally found this. Please don't misinterpret what I feel. I am only on the hunt for solutions. I get confused sometimes and have so many issues with so many VWs that I get befuddled. So, yes, a 1700 and an 091 can work, but there were many subtle dimensional changes to fit the 091 transaxle to the bus with that big 228 clutch disk. You have, I am sure, read of the different input shaft length and the different transaxle length and the need to swap bell housings and all.
So I read your latest post and all is working, that is what counts. Happy trails.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,155 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,820 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 98,380 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,885 miles

Post Reply