Cold shifting difficult in '78 Bus Trans.

Moderators: Sluggo, Amskeptic

Post Reply
User avatar
stealthcamper
I'm New!
Location: Bigfoot County, State of Jefferson.
Status: Offline

Cold shifting difficult in '78 Bus Trans.

Post by stealthcamper » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:54 pm

My '78 Bus with manual trans. is nearly impossible to shift in cold weather.
At about 50 degrees or below, the shifter resembles a stick in cold molasses.
The trans. otherwise works fine, though it has over 410,000 miles on it.
It is quiet in all gears, (except reverse) and shifts perfect when it is hot out.
My first thought was oil viscosity, but I have always used the same 85/90 and change it every 12k.
I have had the Bus 22 years, and it is the original trans.

Any ideas?
Brian.
1978 Type II Custom Campmobile; 409k, Original paint.
My first car, owned since 1988.

"Goin' where the climate suits my clothes"

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: Cold shifting difficult in '78 Bus Trans.

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:30 am

stealthcamper wrote:My '78 Bus with manual trans. is nearly impossible to shift in cold weather.
At about 50 degrees or below, the shifter resembles a stick in cold molasses.
The trans. otherwise works fine, though it has over 410,000 miles on it.
It is quiet in all gears, (except reverse) and shifts perfect when it is hot out.
My first thought was oil viscosity, but I have always used the same 85/90 and change it every 12k.
I have had the Bus 22 years, and it is the original trans.

Any ideas?
Yes. Be very nice to your priceless transaxle.

A) Test clutch disengagement. With engine off, how does it shift into each gear?

B) Does it shift into 1st at a stoplight easily, but upshifts to 2/3/4 are balky?

C) Any brand shift in transaxle oil recently, any "new" "easier shifting!" formulas?
(note that the synchros require friction to work, if you have some slippery snot synthetic, the synchros never get to match the slider to the gear, and will balk til the cows come home)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

User avatar
stealthcamper
I'm New!
Location: Bigfoot County, State of Jefferson.
Status: Offline

Re: Cold shifting difficult in '78 Bus Trans.

Post by stealthcamper » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:36 pm

I just went out and tested it... It is 55f outside.
Clutch is disengaging fine, and it does go into first ok... First to second not too bad, second to third is hard, third to fourth is easier, fourth back to third is real hard. It goes into reverse ok, detent works too.
With the engine off and cold, foot on the clutch, it goes through all gears, but the shifter feels heavy... Like a stick in a bucket of cold syrup.
I have never tried synthetic because the trans. leaks a bit, and I figured it would make it worse.
I have been using Valvoline 75/90 the last few times... maybe it being multi-weight is the problem.
I can't find straight 80w anymore.
Temperature is the common denominator.... Could the nose cone seal stiffen up when cold? Theres some leakage there, so it seems well lubed :)
I'm sure the syncros are tired, but it would grind if they were gone, right?
I know my 400k trans. has already outlived most, but it works fine in warm weather...
What kind of gear oil do you use in yours?

Thanks...
Brian.
1978 Type II Custom Campmobile; 409k, Original paint.
My first car, owned since 1988.

"Goin' where the climate suits my clothes"

User avatar
Bleyseng
IAC Addict!
Location: Seattle again
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Cold shifting difficult in '78 Bus Trans.

Post by Bleyseng » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:08 am

Have you checked and cleaned the shift rod bushings? Those get grimey and gooey and make shifting hard. Usually the older a tranny is the easier it is to shift as all the parts have way too much slop.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

User avatar
stealthcamper
I'm New!
Location: Bigfoot County, State of Jefferson.
Status: Offline

Re: Cold shifting difficult in '78 Bus Trans.

Post by stealthcamper » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:29 pm

I think the bushings are good... I replaced the bushings and fixed the shift detent spring several years ago...
Maybe I used inferior parts or something.
I'll do a full inspection and cleaning of all that stuff again... Start at the shift knob and work my way back... Wouldn't hurt...
Brian.
1978 Type II Custom Campmobile; 409k, Original paint.
My first car, owned since 1988.

"Goin' where the climate suits my clothes"

bigbore
I'm New!
Status: Offline

Re: Cold shifting difficult in '78 Bus Trans.

Post by bigbore » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:01 pm

cold cold COLD you would be screwed if you lived here THATS warm here. I would say pat your self on the back be AMAZED it made it this far take it out send it to the Smithsonian or rebuild it its pass time its telling you something. Just my two cents worth by the way the worst thing you could do is put synthetic it would be the death of it for sure.

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: Cold shifting difficult in '78 Bus Trans.

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:44 am

stealthcamper wrote: third to fourth is easier,
fourth back to third is real hard.
Your lubrication is fine.

A) You have the spring-loaded shifter gate that progressively steals the 3rd/4th slot as tolerances stack up in one direction only with that damn spring forever twisting the shift rod COUNTERclockwise as you face towards the front of the car from the rear. This tries to push the shifter towards 3rd/4th as seen on the ashtray. Slop (tolerance) then makes you unable to line up the the gate as you try to shift. It most famously shows up on the 4th to 3rd shift.

Solution: place into 2nd gear, loosen the shifter housing 13mm bolts just enough and barely tap the stop plate towards the passenger door 1mm.

B) A stiff action on an old bus MAY be caused by a nose count mount/engine mount sag that binds the shift rod in the tube.

Solution: get your bottle jack under the nose cone and jack it up progressively and check for worse/same/better shifter movement.
If better, loosen the two vertical 17mm nuts on nosecone itself and jack up a little more, then tighten with trans now slightly higher.

If worse, keep 17mm nuts loose, and remove jack and place under engine centerline at the rear right near the cross member. Loosen the four 13mm bolts that hold carrier to frame rails. Jack until you can spin those suckers freely in the frame holes. Now push up on carrier as you retighten bolts on each side. This gives you a pathetic additional 2 or 3mm elevation at the rear which will help nose cone drop to free shift rod in tube bushings. Now tighten nose cone nuts.
Colin :geek:
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

User avatar
stealthcamper
I'm New!
Location: Bigfoot County, State of Jefferson.
Status: Offline

Re: Cold shifting difficult in '78 Bus Trans.

Post by stealthcamper » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:19 pm

The verdict is........
Playafied shifter bushings. My bus has been to the Burning Man festival 13 times. Playa dust is just nasty stuff. Mixed with grease and oil it becomes a viscous paste. I shot some WD-40 on them and things improved drastically. I'll put new bushings in and clean everything real good.
Playa dust has caused rust and other problems too...... I wish my bus had never been exposed to that stuff. Too late now.
Glad it was a simple fix..... Thanks for all the suggestions everyone!
Brian.
1978 Type II Custom Campmobile; 409k, Original paint.
My first car, owned since 1988.

"Goin' where the climate suits my clothes"

Post Reply