Itinerant Air-Cooled

My '78 Westy has developed an intermittent light "clickety-click" sound when the engine is running with the transmission in neutral and my foot is off the clutch pedal. Pushing in the clutch pedal until all free-play is out of the pedal shuts it up.

No issues (so far) with clutching or shifting.

Any idea what's going on?

vwlover77 wrote:My '78 Westy has developed an intermittent light "clickety-click" sound when the engine is running with the transmission in neutral and my foot is off the clutch pedal. Pushing in the clutch pedal until all free-play is out of the pedal shuts it up.

No issues (so far) with clutching or shifting.

Any idea what's going on?

You to tell us. Go under said vehicle, and touch the clutch lever at idle, during this noise. If you feel it kicking, you have some investigation to consider ... your annual spring engine pull so you can dust behind the fuel tank bulkhead and spit-shine your pressure plate.
Colin

(if the clutch lever is involved, you may be looking at cross shaft not aligning with the diaphragm?) Bits of broken clutch bolt heads flying around . . . intermittently? )

throwout bearing. maybe just a retaining spring broke and the bearing is rattling.

vdubyah73 wrote:throwout bearing. maybe just a retaining spring broke and the bearing is rattling.

Not looking good here, Don, for a spring of no engine pull. All that rotating machinery needs to be piloted but good. Update?
Colin

No update... The car was driven only briefly yesterday due to unseasonably sunny, warm, and dry weather. It's back in its storage garage now waiting for the next fair weather opportunity, which may be Friday or Saturday.

After driving it into the garage, I let it idle for quite a few minutes waiting to dive under at the first sound of "clickety". It never made a sound!

vwlover77 wrote:No update... The car was driven only briefly yesterday due to unseasonably sunny, warm, and dry weather. It's back in its storage garage now waiting for the next fair weather opportunity, which may be Friday or Saturday.

After driving it into the garage, I let it idle for quite a few minutes waiting to dive under at the first sound of "clickety". It never made a sound!

Boy, that is a handsome avatar you got there, huh? Can you imagine that pair in your garage?

The TBRRD had a couple of nasty clutch noises that spontaneously cleared up. They related to the misalignment of the cross shaft to the forks to the release bearing yokes to the special collar on the pressure plate, and when I took the engine out once a week on my way back to Atlanta, the parts all sat dumbly there, looking absolutely fine. A beautifully shiny polished release bearing face, by the way, is either older than the hills, or is being polished by misalignment with the pressure plate. Just make a note of that.
Colin

Well, it is sunny and 60 degrees today. The Bus came out, got its oil changed and front axle lubed, and the clickety noise came back. It's constant, sounds something like a noisy valve lifter, and the clicking frequency varies with engine rpm. With the windows down, I can hear it as I'm driving down the road, regardless of what gear I'm in (anytime my foot is off the clutch)

I crawled under and felt the clutch lever and there is no kick or vibration in it. I also pulled the lever forward as far as I could by hand, and the noise did not decrease nor did I feel any vibration. The clutch pedal has to be pushed down pretty far to make the noise stop.

Like so many of these noises, it's difficult to pinpoint where it's coming from, but it seems like it's loudest at the fan. This strikes me as very strange and worrisome, if true.

vwlover77 wrote:Well, it is sunny and 60 degrees today. The Bus came out, got its oil changed and front axle lubed, and the clickety noise came back. It's constant, sounds something like a noisy valve lifter, and the clicking frequency varies with engine rpm. With the windows down, I can hear it as I'm driving down the road, regardless of what gear I'm in (anytime my foot is off the clutch)

I crawled under and felt the clutch lever and there is no kick or vibration in it. I also pulled the lever forward as far as I could by hand, and the noise did not decrease nor did I feel any vibration. The clutch pedal has to be pushed down pretty far to make the noise stop.

Like so many of these noises, it's difficult to pinpoint where it's coming from, but it seems like it's loudest at the fan. This strikes me as very strange and worrisome, if true.

Let's be excited at the intellectual challenge . . .

Your endplay has opened up. The crankshaft is drilling forward because of the camshaft gear helical cut. When you step on the clutch, you are pushing the entire crank backwards and allowing whatever part is rubbing a moment of peace. . . or something.
You can do an endplay check in the car. Take off alternator belt. Pry pulley towards you with screwdrivers. Punch forward with palms. Listen, feel, for click or clunk.
Colin
(you can cobble together a dial indicator too . . .)

OK. I will focus on the intellectual challenge instead of panicking that the endplay has opened up so far! (I'll also check that it isn't something stupid like the fan shroud being loose!)

Do I need to do the check on a hot engine, or is cold OK?

Dumb question..... If I correct the endplay by adding shim thickness, doesn't this just pull the crankshaft even further forward?

Well, I have to admit, the whole endplay thing had me really nervous. Tonight I popped the belt off and was getting ready to set up my dial indicator for some measurements when I noticed one of the nuts on the fan perimeter was loose..... Hmmmmm...... Clue!

I took the fan off and discovered that the bolt was loose enough to collide and rub on the fan shroud behind it. Apparently when it was clicking, pressing the clutch pushed the fan just far enough away that the rubbing stopped. And maybe a quick clutch release popped the bolt far enough back into position that the noise went away for a while.

All bolts tightened, fan installed, problem solved!!!!!

vwlover77 wrote:Well, I have to admit, the whole endplay thing had me really nervous.
All bolts tightened, fan installed, problem solved!!!!!

So, how is your endplay?
Colin

Amskeptic wrote:So, how is your endplay?

Oh, fine! You want to keep me from sleeping at night?

I did not end up measuring it, however, I did try the "pry on the pulley / push it back" check before I found the loose nut, and I could not feel or hear any "click or clunk" (on a cold engine).

I almost followed up your post describing the noises with the situation
of having a fan pulley bolt coming loose.....similar to what I just encountered
two days ago!
Of course, it just couldn't be that you'd have the same exact situation happening
as I did.

These are the only two times I've heard of it happening. Colin, have you encountered
this on any of your many itinerant visits?

Glad you got it fixed, Don! My fan pulley is at the machine shop, right now, getting its
balance checked.

Tom, I was following your thread and it never struck me that I could have the same thing going on! Of course, I was focused on the flywheel end of the contraption until last night!

vwlover77 wrote:

Amskeptic wrote:So, how is your endplay?

Oh, fine! You want to keep me from sleeping at night?

I did not end up measuring it, however, I did try the "pry on the pulley / push it back" check before I found the loose nut, and I could not feel or hear any "click or clunk" (on a cold engine).

We of fine green machines do not allow our precision motorcars' crankshafts to . . . . clunk.