New 2 L - a host of issues, a new one every day!

[whc03grady]

The engine is a fresh 2 liter aspirated by dual Solex PDSIT carbs. The distributor is a used 021 905 205N.

We took a trip yesterday, about 60 miles all told. The car ran fine going up the hill, but on the way down there started to be some missing and backfiring (popcorn-like). We stopped at the destination for awhile, got back in and drove back over the mountains. The missing/backfiring started earlier this time, but was not severe and we got over the mountain fine. As we continued down however it got worse and worse until near the end of the trip it was so stuttery as to be quite nearly undriveable. It seemed to be more prevalent at higher rpms, and less-so as I let off the accelerator.

I'd like to implicate the distributor but I have a personal history rife with mis-diagnoses. I'll be checking the valves, points gap, timing, and plugs this morning.

Thoughts?

[whc03grady]

Valves
adjusted to 0.006

Points
set at 0.016
points, cap, rotor, and coil are all <300 miles old

Plugs
gap was 0.024 on all




this is after 269 miles

Timing (no hoses pulled)
~750 rpm=8* ATDC
~950 rpm=0* TDC
~1800 rpm=17* BTDC
~3500 rpm=26* BTDC

After revving it up to obtain that 3500 rpm figure, the idle dropped and stayed way down, like ~600 rpm. There were several backfires at and around 3500 rpm.

[Amskeptic]

There were several backfires at and around 3500 rpm.

Mitch .... now that we have recovered from our marathon, have you read the Dual Carb Adjustment Procedure?

Backfiring and lousy running so very quickly relates to CUT-OFF SOLENOIDS! Yes, when these babies lose an electrical connection, they kill half the engine and leave the rest popping and sputtering and stalling like an old Model T with water in the gas. Won't you check yours, TODAY?

With a warm engine idling/attempting to idle:

Snap the throttles open briefly.

Pull the central idling wire off your coil (+) Terminal Tree.
Idle go down? It is working!
Idle not go down? It is not working! Shut off engine, turn on ignition only.
Touch the wire to the terminal without actually plugging it in, and listen for a clickity click at the solenoid itself over on the left side. Try slightly unscrewing it and play with that wire touching the (+) terminal to see if you can get a good solid clicking going on. You MUST hear that hissing sucking sound at idle to know the solenoid has opened.

Check both side cut-offs with an idling engine that has the central idling sucking correctly.
In turn, pull off left then right wire from the Terminal Tree. Idle must drop for each. If one does not change the idle, it has either a lousy electrical connection, or a failure within.
Shut off engine. Play with wire touching (+) and listen for a more subtle click than the central.
No click? Make sure solenoid has not loosened on its carburetor. Yes click, but no change in idle when you pull the wire to test? Crap in the idle circuit. I have rescued a many clogged idle circuit with a blast of GumOut spray in the hole where you unscrewed the solenoid out to clean it.

I will try to monitor this thread, I am way over-cooked here in Portland currently.
Colin

[whc03grady]

Well, now I think the fuel pump (or its wiring) died, so I'm back a few steps.
We were doing another highway run, 60mph and less on a flat road. I got to the turnaround point and depressed the clutch ("you'll never amount to anything in life"), and the engine died. Hmmm. Put it in 3rd and popped the clutch, everything's running again. Got to the next turn, depressed the clutch again ("I only ever married you because I was pregnant"), and it died again, but this time no popping is doing any starting. A "clack" when I hit the key. Also, no fuel pump sound with the key on. Plenty of oil, no leaks, no hot smells. Melissa and I both thought we noticed an electric-y smell, but maybe it was our imaginations. I had noticed the alternator light was glowing more than usual (it's one of those that's always glowing a little). I'll start dealing with it tonight. Maybe. Frustrating.

[BellePlaine]

Also, no fuel pump sound with the key on.

You have an aftermarket electronic fuel pump, yes? Is it because you now have a 2.0 L engine that you cannot use the stock fuel pump which would have been housed in the 1.7 L case, right?

I used to run a progressive carb and an aftermarket electronic fuel pump. Just like you noted, when the ignition was hot/on the pump would run. I also had a fuel pressure regulator that looked like a dial. Just a wild guess, but if you hadn't adjusted your fuel pressure at the pump going from a progressive to the stock carbs, perhaps the carbs required more fuel then the pump would allow. Maybe the pump couldn't keep up with the demand and overheated and died?

I still have my old pump if you think that you could use it.

[Amskeptic]

Well, now I think the fuel pump (or its wiring) died, so I'm back a few steps.
We were doing another highway run, 60mph and less on a flat road. I got to the turnaround point and depressed the clutch ("you'll never amount to anything in life"), and the engine died. Hmmm. Put it in 3rd and popped the clutch, everything's running again. Got to the next turn, depressed the clutch again ("I only ever married you because I was pregnant"), and it died again, but this time no popping is doing any starting. A "clack" when I hit the key. Also, no fuel pump sound with the key on. Plenty of oil, no leaks, no hot smells. Melissa and I both thought we noticed an electric-y smell, but maybe it was our imaginations. I had noticed the alternator light was glowing more than usual (it's one of those that's always glowing a little). I'll start dealing with it tonight. Maybe. Frustrating.

I never liked that fuel pump wiring. I don't like running fuel pump off of coils, not only because of the safety issues, but you are running the pump through the ignition switch.

I like our little relay deal.
30= nicely spliced power lead from heater blower wire after its fuse
87= wire to (+) pump
86= wire from blue wire connector at regulator
85= ground to relay mount on firewall

I am sorry (depressed) if you have to remove the pump from its perch.
Colin

[whc03grady]

You'd think that it was just the fuel pump and/or its wiring that's the problem, but the damn thing won't turn over either, still. I'm worried that I fried something. Why?
Because Ludwig has been plagued with hot starting syndrome his whole life; where after a nice run, you daren't shut him down or you're gonna be push starting him (or waiting half an hour). Last week when this occurred at the grocery store I thought I'd duck underneath and bridge the two bolts on the starter with a pliers (I like how Bosch put that plastic wall between the bolts so you can't do it with a screwdriver). Sparketedy spark sparker spark and whirrr whirrr whirr but no start. Ah well, I hoofed it home, did some research and found that connecting the two bolts is only s'posed to make it do the whirr whirr whirr. To actually start it, you span your pliers across one of the bolts with the spade connector. So the next time I had occasion to pull this trick I did that and got all the sparks, but no start. Now I wonder if I might've used the wrong bolt and cooked something. Because, like I said, the damn thing won't even turn over.
Battery has 12V, confirmed by multimeter.

[Amskeptic]

You'd think that it was just the fuel pump and/or its wiring that's the problem, but the damn thing won't turn over either, still. I'm worried that I fried something. Why?
Because Ludwig has been plagued with hot starting syndrome his whole life; where after a nice run, you daren't shut him down or you're gonna be push starting him (or waiting half an hour). Last week when this occurred at the grocery store I thought I'd duck underneath and bridge the two bolts on the starter with a pliers (I like how Bosch put that plastic wall between the bolts so you can't do it with a screwdriver). Sparketedy spark sparker spark and whirrr whirrr whirr but no start. Ah well, I hoofed it home, did some research and found that connecting the two bolts is only s'posed to make it do the whirr whirr whirr. To actually start it, you span your pliers across one of the bolts with the spade connector. So the next time I had occasion to pull this trick I did that and got all the sparks, but no start. Now I wonder if I might've used the wrong bolt and cooked something. Because, like I said, the damn thing won't even turn over.
Battery has 12V, confirmed by multimeter.

Rotate the engine with an adjustable wrench on the alternator pulley and a finger on the belt if it wants to slip. Does it turn relatively readily?
If it does, do the spade-to-bolt starter test. If you get only sparks with a cold starter, the starter is likely the culprit. Even so, check the battery posts/terminals, the starter terminal and the ground strap between the transaxle and the diaonal arm bracket. We have to have a good electrical path before indicting the starter itself.

Man, hang in there. Tho I walk the valley .....
Colin

[BellePlaine]

I have a hunch that you either have a corroded or a broken transmission ground strap. If your ground strap isn't functioning, it's my understanding that the electric current will try to find a ground through the clutch cable (which also connects to the transmission), perhaps when you depressed the clutch you screwed up the ground. It's a theory. You do also mention that you and Melissa noticed an electric smell.

Well, now I think the fuel pump (or its wiring) died, so I'm back a few steps.
We were doing another highway run, 60mph and less on a flat road. I got to the turnaround point and depressed the clutch ("you'll never amount to anything in life"), and the engine died. Hmmm. Put it in 3rd and popped the clutch, everything's running again. Got to the next turn, depressed the clutch again ("I only ever married you because I was pregnant"), and it died again, but this time no popping is doing any starting. A "clack" when I hit the key. Also, no fuel pump sound with the key on. Plenty of oil, no leaks, no hot smells. Melissa and I both thought we noticed an electric-y smell, but maybe it was our imaginations. I had noticed the alternator light was glowing more than usual (it's one of those that's always glowing a little). I'll start dealing with it tonight. Maybe. Frustrating.

[whc03grady]

Yeah, I've read about that too. After Colin visited and I put the proper bend/sag in the Bowden tube, I looked at the strap and decided it needed some R&R, so I cleaned it with GumOut (TM) and a wire brush. Then I replaced the crappier end with a nice fat copper terminal like this, but I'm giving it another look-see this evening, maybe tomorrow.

[Gypsie]

I have used those connections before as well. I went the extra step of adding solder to fill the gaps and solidify electrical flowage.

Good a place as any to have a electrical interruption. perhaps even getting worse every time is was utilized for cranking. Maybe even arcing and giving the electric-y smell you described earlier...

This is getting interesting...

[whc03grady]

30= nicely spliced power lead from heater blower wire after its fuse

"After"?

blower-----(here?)----------fuse------(or here?)--------

[Gypsie]

Where's power and wheres ground? power-- Fuse--motor--ground right? Jes curious

[whc03grady]

Where's power and wheres ground? power-- Fuse--motor--ground right?

Yeah, I guess.

Another question: Can I use a relay with 30, 85, 86, 87, and 87A connections, leaving 87A blank? I found a couple like that; the only relay with just 30, 85, 86, and 87 didn't have a mount and I don't feel like fabricating anything.

[whc03grady]

The hits just keep coming.
I cleaned up the trans-ground strap. I had Melissa turn the key on and tried to jump the starter. Melissa hollered that she had a lot of smoke coming from under the dash. I took a look and sure enough a couple wires melted under there.

I'm at my wit's f*cking end with this thing.