acceptable oil temps?

[urtheiz]

i've been workin' on it and replaced (w/empi products) both the "valve pressure/controller" springs and plugs, cleaned out the housing. it's running 210-235ish now. feels sooooo much nicer driving it now. the spring that was in the "rear" pressure hole (?) was 3" long and the new spring i got from empi was a 1/2 longer! it was such a pain in the *, i used the origanal 3" one, which was still a trouble getting the screw/bolt (oil temp gauge is connected to this-green wires were used for all the gauges!) in place. the front controller valve plug was stuck big time and i had to use a magnet for that and still didn't think i ould get it out. had to use some emery cloth on the new plug so it would slide n an' out.
gonna go back to 10/30 weght oil to see if that can bring the temps down a little more. oil pressure at 220 degrees is about 35-40psi.
thanx for all your suggestions and help!!!

[Amskeptic]

gonna go back to 10/30 weght oil to see if that can bring the temps down a little more. oil pressure at 220 degrees is about 35-40psi.
thanx for all your suggestions and help!!!

No don't. VW uses the viscosity to "switch the oil cooler on" with the pressure relief valve. Thinner oil does not bridge the wide latitude in bearing dimensions with these air-cooled engines. This is a great time to follow the factory recommendations.
Colin

[Xelmon]

gonna go back to 10/30 weight oil to see if that can bring the temps down a little more. oil pressure at 220 degrees is about 35-40psi.
Thanx for all your suggestions and help!!!

No don't. VW uses the viscosity to "switch the oil cooler on" with the pressure relief valve. Thinner oil does not bridge the wide latitude in bearing dimensions with these air-cooled engines. This is a great time to follow the factory recommendations.
Colin

To build upon Colin's comment:
In the VW's you need thicker oil so that the viscosity is strong enough to maintain the lubing surface.
As far as numbers go, 20W-50 @ ~225F is 2 uRayn, and 10W-30 @ ~225F is 1.25 uRayn. That is about 38% less viscid, which is a rather big difference in characteristics of oil.

[Gypsie]

viscid...

It had to be said again.

[urtheiz]

thanx, i'll keep the oil where it is.

[Hippie]

Could be you old spring got weak over the years. Temp. seems much better now.

[Hippie]

...As far as numbers go, 20W-50 @ ~225F is 2 uRayn, and 10W-30 @ ~225F is 1.25 uRayn. That is about 38% less viscid, which is a rather big difference in characteristics of oil.

uRayn. I'm not familiar with that unit of measure.
I usually use cSt, and HTHS viscosity in cSt, rather than kinematic, as HTHS seems to be the one that counts for oil system back pressure against the bearings (and also for bearing wear).
Remarkable correlation between gauge oil pressure and HTHS, not so much with kinematic.

I have a graph somewhere.

[BumbleBus]

Hi. Kinda been lurking sorry. I tapped the taco plate on my Type IV 1700 recently with a sender to a VDO gauge. This afternoon I went for a nice longish test run and the oil temps got to about 200-210 at sustained 55-58mph in about 85 degree ambient outside temp. My question is, which I can't seem to find an answer for, is there a known "under reading" amount with these taco plate installs? Since it's grabbing from the sump after the oil cooler and also is in air flow I'm concerned that 200-210 is too hot. Thanks for any tips. The good news is she seemed to be purring around 3,200rpm at 55mph... unless my tach is off... entirely possible.



Edit: 20w50 "high mileage" oil.

Edit Part Deux: Dipstick was only "warm" when I got back, but isn't that a Type I only test? *hic*

[Amskeptic]

I'm concerned that 200-210 is too hot.

I'm concerned it's not.
Dr.Seuss

(you want it to get to boiling temp at least ... how else will you drive the moisture that accumulates out?)

[Gypsie]

Since it's grabbing from the sump after the oil cooler and also is in air flow I'm concerned that 200-210 is too hot.

I read your post to infer that you believe that the gauge reading of '200-210' is reflective of oil temps that are actually much higher (i.e. the location of your sender is giving you a faulty reading and when it reads 200 it is actually higher). Is this your concern?

I have a sender in the oil drain hole and I too have a concern that this is a bad location because in this location the oil is just sloshing around and the sender is sucking up case heat and air flow and blah blah blah...

The temps you post seem good to me and consistent with my findings too.

I also find that the gauges are 'reference points' and should be added to the overall observation mix. Each in and of themselves are to be taken with a grain of salt and only really concerning if they are waay out of the established norm for your rig. IMO

[BumbleBus]

I read your post to infer that you believe that the gauge reading of '200-210' is reflective of oil temps that are actually much higher (i.e. the location of your sender is giving you a faulty reading and when it reads 200 it is actually higher). Is this your concern?

Exactly. If my gauge is reading 200-210 in the sump/air flow how hot is it the engine itself? I've been looking for "average" under readings on VDO gauges with the sender in the taco plate, but can't find anything concrete so far. If it's 10-20 degrees low I'm in the zone and not gonna worry about it, but if it's like 30-40 under I'll be concerned.

I also find that the gauges are 'reference points' and should be added to the overall observation mix. Each in and of themselves are to be taken with a grain of salt and only really concerning if they are waay out of the established norm for your rig. IMO

Totally and that's what I'm going to learn over time is the trending of this gauge for this bay, but I have zero mechanical knowledge and don't know the condition or history of this motor from the PO other than it was "rebuilt in 2002". My compressions were all 100+ and it's tuned to the best of my limited ability, but I'm just paranoid that's all. I do notice at running temps that I can smell mouse piss a little still so, despite my cleaning, I may have missed some debris somewhere in the ducting etc., which also lends to the paranoia.

She sure is driving sweet though!! Maybe I just need to run her hotter to burn off all the excess mouse smell. Haha. Thanks for the feedback! Owning a bay is like being a new father I swear. Always learning & fearing.

[Gypsie]

but I have zero mechanical knowledge and don't know the condition or history of this motor from the PO other than it was "rebuilt in 2002". My compressions were all 100+ and it's tuned to the best of my limited ability,

Mutually exclusive statements here. compression testing and temp sender tapping are just the skills that will keep you on the path of mechanical righteousness..

.and the people said amen...AMEN

I'm just paranoid that's all.

Owning a bay is like being a new father I swear. Always learning & fearing.

This will keep the "mechanical moral compass" aligned and calibrated.



For funsies get yerself ad IR temp reader:

http://www.google.com/#pq=%22ir+temp+re ... 43&bih=672
You can do some sample readings for all sorts of things. just getting to know yer engine...

[BumbleBus]

Mutually exclusive statements here

Heh, heh... well... hypocrisy is my middle name I've been told.

For funsies get yerself ad IR temp reader

Oh! Good idea thanks. Wait.. but then I'll become extremely paranoid when I start seeing things like 600deg exhaust temps. Hah!

Thanks for the tips! Appreciated.

[urtheiz]

i believe a dumb question is better than no question, but what is a "taco plate"?

[Hippie]

plate of tacos...er...taco plate, I mean:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=227155