type 4 cam question

[RSorak 71Westy]

Heys folks,

Been gone from here for a while as my need for VW info has been satiated, but now I have new questions.

A man from Ontario has shown up at my house due to the AIRS List and 2 flat lobes on his 77 Bus with a fresh 2.0 liter he built just before striking out on this trip. It has about 1500 miles on it. It's a stock profile cam with hydraulic lifters.

ATM he can't find anyone with a cam in stock and ready to ship. Does anyone know where some quality parts (cam and lifters) can be found ASAP?

Any idea on things to look for once we get this out and split tomorrow? He had a problem getting the engine to start for the 1st time, i.e. lots of cranking time on the new cam. And he did run 1 oil change with regular modern low zinc oil. It's been mostly run with Brad Penn high zinc oil. Any ideas on why the cam failed?

Thanks

[Amskeptic]

2 flat lobes on his 2.0 liter he built stock profile cam with hydraulic lifters.
he can't find anyone with a cam in stock and ready to ship. Does anyone know where some quality parts (cam and lifters) can be found ASAP?

Any idea on things to look for? He had a problem getting the engine to start for the 1st time, i.e. lots of cranking time on the new cam. And he did run 1 oil change with regular modern low zinc oil. It's been mostly run with Brad Penn high zinc oil. Any ideas on why the cam failed?

Thanks

I cannot help you with the cam procurement, but Bus Depot FEBI lifters will work with most by virtue of the fact that they seem to be sacrificially softer than most cams. You would rather replace lifters than cams.

What brand camshaft/lifters were originally used?
Which lobes failed?
What assembly lube was used?
Colin

[RSorak 71Westy]

Cam and lifters are unknown brands but came from Scott @ German supply.
On GS website it only says made in USA

He used Webcams assembly lube.

We'll have pics to post later today.

[steve74baywin]

If it is hard to get a new one maybe you can find a used one and get it to a machine shop.

[RSorak 71Westy]

OK we got it apart. Can looks nasty 3 of the 4 lobes definitely damaged. The cam baring are also worn down to the copper in 1500 miles, this has me very concerned. The rear 4 lifters were eaten and 2 of the rear front lifters were eaten.

There are pics in my album not sure how to post them here.

[RSorak 71Westy]

OK we've found the answer to the cam bearing issue. There a bunch of crappy type 4 cam bearings out there that are NOT steel backed and this is what they do.....!!!!

There's apparently some issue with stock type 4 cams we can't find one anywhere ! Having to go with the smallest aftermarket we can find.

[Oregon72]

Wow, 1500 miles? Just shameful. CB Performance in California has cams and lifters for type 4 - The CB Performance "Econo" cam is what I have in my engine - it is considered a mild cam

[RSorak 71Westy]

Well One company in the entire USA had a new type 4 camshaft, in stock and ready to ship. Fat Performance....The parts were expensive, but we got them today and the engine is back together and going beck in the bus in the morning.

[RSorak 71Westy]

We got the cam and other parts from Fat, Sat morn @ 10 am, Thanks FEDEX. Spent the day Sat putting the engine back together, Put it in this morning. Fired it up, broke in the cam and took it for a test drive around the 240 loop around Memphis. Ran Great. This cam is gonna work fine. He fessed up that they tried to tune the idle and other things before they started the cam break in on the failed cam. He was very happy I was on the AIRS list. His name is Scott and his bus is a green 77 Camp mobile and he's probably gonna eventually become a member here.

[Hippie]

OK we've found the answer to the cam bearing issue. There a bunch of crappy type 4 cam bearings out there that are NOT steel backed and this is what they do.....!!!!

There's apparently some issue with stock type 4 cams we can't find one anywhere ! Having to go with the smallest aftermarket we can find.

I am SO surprised. NOT.

[dtrumbo]

I realize I'm veering out of the technical-forum conversation parameters but I want to take a second to offer Rick a hearty round of =D> . Doing basically an engine rebuild is going WAY above and beyond what anyone on the A.I.R.S. list should be reasonably expected to do. I'm sure the person you helped has thanked you, but thanks from us too. Good work well done.

To keep it technical, I'll throw in some keywords like lift, duration, splash and zinc. There, that's better.

[RSorak 71Westy]

The owner did most of the work. I just provided the space, larger tools, and an occasional helping hand. The main thing I provided was competent technical advice, which was lacking on his previous build of this engine.

[Amskeptic]

The owner did most of the work. I just provided the space, larger tools, and an occasional helping hand. The main thing I provided was competent technical advice, which was lacking on his previous build of this engine.

I was looking at the photographs in your gallery, and was trying to figure out the patterns on the center cam bearing and the nasty looking cam lobes. Something looked bizarre in the center cam saddle area. Was there any damage at the center cam saddle/main bearing saddle that might sugest the famed Type 4 syndrome where the saddle gets cracked by over-tightening the strainer plate?
Colin?

[Oregon72]

The main thing I provided was competent technical advice.

Competent advice is a scarce and valuable resource you know. You did a very generous and admirable thing for that stranded bus pilot.

Oops Technical thread !!! Lift, duration, etc..

[Gypsie]

The owner did most of the work. I just provided the space, larger tools, and an occasional helping hand. The main thing I provided was competent technical advice, which was lacking on his previous build of this engine.

Not surprised at all Mr. Sorak and good on ya for it.


Uh...thrust, stroke, etc.