Installing the Flywheel Seal

[Sluggo]

I'm gonna drop the engine and reinstall the flywheel seal. Must have cocked it or something the first time. Leaking out the bottom and from the bottom starter bolt. Colin said it must been cocked to the side and splashing oil all around in there.

Any hints on making sure it goes in right this time?

[Amskeptic]

I'm gonna drop the engine and reinstall the flywheel seal. Must have cocked it or something the first time. Leaking out the bottom and from the bottom starter bolt. Colin said it must been cocked to the side and spalshing oil all around in there.

Any hints on making sure it goes in right this time?

I don't remember such a fanciful supposition. I never saw the seal. If I saw a leaky looking bell housing-to-engine area, I am sure I guessed either the seal or a gallery plug. . . .

Look for a groove worn into the flywheel. If it has one, install the new seal in a different location. Look at where your current seal is. It will be flush with the opening or slightly recessed when you first see it. Make the new seal the opposite of what you find. Install new seal into a clean opening dry. I use just my hands only to start it and maybe a block of wood tapped briefly by a hammer to seat it. Now grease the flywheel surface where it goes into the seal. The seal likes this grease by the way. Place the flywheel on the crank, push a bit, and remove. The grease will tell you where the seal lip is going to be. If you like it, yer good. If the grease track lands exactly where the groove is you can only drive the seal further in, don't go prying it back out.
Colin

[Sluggo]

I don't remember such a fanciful supposition. I never saw the seal. If I saw a leaky looking bell housing-to-engine area, I am sure I guessed either the seal or a gallery plug. . . .

That is what you said. I'm just hoping it isn't a gallery plug.

Look for a groove worn into the flywheel. If it has one, install the new seal in a different location. Look at where your current seal is. It will be flush with the opening or slightly recessed when you first see it. Make the new seal the opposite of what you find. Install new seal into a clean opening dry. I use just my hands only to start it and maybe a block of wood tapped briefly by a hammer to seat it. Now grease the flywheel surface where it goes into the seal. The seal likes this grease by the way. Place the flywheel on the crank, push a bit, and remove. The grease will tell you where the seal lip is going to be. If you like it, yer good. If the grease track lands exactly where the groove is you can only drive the seal further in, don't go prying it back out.
Colin

Thanks! I believe we made it flush with the lip last time. Wish me luck!

[Bleyseng]

Don't forget to replace the O ring inside of the flywheel as that sucker leaks too.

[Sluggo]

Here are some pics of the very leaky seal and it's effects. It was almost flush on one side and about 1 mm or less deep on the other.

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As you can see the groove is toward the front of the engine and the seal was set towards the back.

Hmmm? What now?

[Sluggo]

Guess what! It's the input shaft on the tranny that is leaking. Not the flywheel seal. Which is why there was no oil on the engine side of the flywheel or on the engine. But the starter, bell housing & throwout were drenched and it leaks like mad. I couldn't smell it because I'm using synthetic transmission fluid.

[chitwnvw]

I was just reading the Muir book where it says that's the other reason for oil leaking out of the bell housing, said it felt and smelled different. Too strange. If my memory holds, you have to drop the tranny and change the rear seal?

[Amskeptic]

I was just reading the Muir book where it says that's the other reason for oil leaking out of the bell housing, said it felt and smelled different. Too strange. If my memory holds, you have to drop the tranny and change the rear seal?

Let's call it the "input shaft seal." And yes, pull the engine. . . . AGAIN.

[Sluggo]

Fun, Fun, Fun.

I'm also still having the Oil Pressure problem. Couldn't put in the new 30mm Schadek because the lower shaft hits the cam bolts. You can't grind the lower shaft or the pin may fall out. So I had to put the worn out stock pump back.

During reassembly the left cooling flap poped off three times. Everytime it happened as I was hooking up the T-Stat cable. Had to tear the rear and exhaust all apart 3 times. And now the flap is off again!

While I was balancing out the carbs I found the stud & nut holding the #2 Venturi In place had fallen out and was on my tin. Tried to put it back and realized the threads in the carb had stripped. Had to have that heliocoiled.

[chitwnvw]

Dang, that sucks.

I had to recess my cam bolts a pretty good amount to achieve clearance. I got mine from aircooled.net, and I have to say that John makes it sound like a breeze to make the swap, it wasn't.

I have a type 4 oil pump that someone donated, don't know if it's any better than what you've got, but it's yours if you want...

[Sluggo]

Dang, that sucks.

I had to recess my cam bolts a pretty good amount to achieve clearance. I got mine from aircooled.net, and I have to say that John makes it sound like a breeze to make the swap, it wasn't.

I have a type 4 oil pump that someone donated, don't know if it's any better than what you've got, but it's yours if you want...

Please! I'll make sure you get a T-Shirt & STicker if we ever get them!

I can't find any real info on how to check oil pumps. You wanna make sure there isn't too much slop in the gears. How much is too much? I don't know. The shaft shouldn't move back & forth too much on the top gear. Again, how much is too much? And you shouldn't see excessive wear pattern from the gears on the cover. But what is excessive? Everyone I've ever seen has some rings worn in from the gears. Mine were very slight and it had very little slop on the gears & shaft.

[Amskeptic]

Please! I'll make sure you get a T-Shirt & Sticker if we ever get them!

Patience, lad, patience. But you sure seem to be put through the wringer.

slop How much? I don't know.
shaft shouldn't move back & forth too much on the top gear.
how much?
excessive wear pattern on the cover.
what is excessive?

1) left flap should not be falling off. Ensure that clips are bent such that they grip the pins in the housing. Ensure that the ends of the link are squashed and bent so the link doesn't fall out of the little eyelets.
2) slop should be no more than "barely perceptable" .001" or so.
3) no back and forth here, if you mean "up-and-down" (radial) play.
Barely any side-to-side (axial) play.
4) Type 4 pumps hardly care about wear marks on the ends of the housing or pump body where the gears' ends contact them.
5) Rather than throw out the new pump, you spot face the bolt heads on the camshaft gear, counterbore the gear where the bolts seat, and then no worries with contact. But I really have not run into a stock pump that did not have generous reserve capacity.
Colin

[Sluggo]

Patience, lad, patience. But you sure seem to be put through the wringer.

I just consider it all learning. And bringing me that much closer to not having to worry about everything on the Bus. At this point, almost everything has been rebuilt, replaced or at least inspected and verified good. Except for the problems mentioned. I have all the stuff for my front suspension overhaul but haven't had time yet.

On the upside, I got a 914 Taco Plate for free and have proven the durability of the Truck Bed Liner on the engine tin idea. I got a picture of Jakes CIS-E system and noticed he did the entire engine compartment except the tin in truck bed liner.

1) left flap should not be falling off. Ensure that clips are bent such that they grip the pins in the housing. Ensure that the ends of the link are squashed and bent so the link doesn't fall out of the little eyelets.
2) slop should be no more than "barely perceptable" .001" or so.
3) no back and forth here, if you mean "up-and-down" (radial) play.
Barely any side-to-side (axial) play.
4) Type 4 pumps hardly care about wear marks on the ends of the housing or pump body where the gears' ends contact them.
5) Rather than throw out the new pump, you spot face the bolt heads on the camshaft gear, counterbore the gear where the bolts seat, and then no worries with contact. But I really have not run into a stock pump that did not have generous reserve capacity.
Colin

I'll recheck the other pumps I have. We did spot face the cam bolts for clearance on the type 4 pump but Apparently the Type 1 pump requires just a little more room.

The flap is disconecting where the little "U" pin goes into the clip on the left flap. I'll pinch it down real good when I pull it to install the input shaft seal.

[chitwnvw]

We did spot face the cam bolts for clearance on the type 4 pump but Apparently the Type 1 pump requires just a little more room.

It was a lot. I brought the case into the machinist so he could get it exact, at first he didn't believe me that we had to go as deep as we did. He was worried if it went much deeper that the integrity of the cam gear would be compromised.

Sluggo, you can pm me about the pump. It had a lot of greasy sludge on it, so I'm sure it's seen it's share of miles. But I don't mind sending it your way, if you want a selection of parts to choose from.

[Amskeptic]

The flap is disconecting where the little "U" pin goes into the clip on the left flap. I'll pinch it down real good when I pull it to install the input shaft seal.

This is where I suggested that you make sure the "U pin" has the peened (squashed flat) edge. If you squish the clip, it could end up binding the flap and the damn "U pin" falls out anyway. You want the clip to be loose-ish here, and the pin most certainly retained by the end squish. I think you know I know what I am saying because I sure don't know if I know if you know that I know what I am trying to say.
Colin