Pending engine rebuild; 1800

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jimbear
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Location: Athens, GA
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Pending engine rebuild; 1800

Post by jimbear » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:45 am

Colin, et al.,
My engine is out and at the builder. Clyde Maddox from the Athens VW Club will be doing the rebuild. I want a stock rebuild and am planning to continue using my stock dual carbs, stock air intake set-up, stock vac advanced distributor and a set of brand new Len Hoffman 1800 heads. The case is not yet cracked. The build is happening per the assessment of noticeable wear on the cam lobes for cylinder # 2, imminent head failure (loose heli-coil and cracked valve seal), and non-severe, but present oil loss. The original thread for my bus here.

Questions and thoughts:
  • When sourcing a camshaft, what should we look for to match the stock application I am going for?
  • I assume that I should look to use new push-rods and lifters.
  • Any recommendation on bearings to source?
  • With regards to the pistons and cylinders, when we looked at them the last time Colin was here we noticed there was still crosshatching on the cylinder walls. Should I have Clyde give me his assessment of them and the pistons? I know the rings need to be replaced at the very least.
  • Drill and tap my gallery plug holes, correct?
  • Chase/clean all studs and bolts, correct?
  • Clyde will be assessing the case in general. Anything we should look for specifically?
  • Rods, crankshaft, flywheel, and fan will be going to a local and reputable shop for balancing. Hoping to reuse all.
What am I missing? Any backup and assistance would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
'74 Hardtop Westy
Pretty much stock engine setup

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jimbear
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Re: Pending engine rebuild; 1800

Post by jimbear » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:41 am

Anybody out there?
'74 Hardtop Westy
Pretty much stock engine setup

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Amskeptic
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Re: Pending engine rebuild; 1800

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:08 am

jimbear wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:41 am
Anybody out there?
Sure. What? You have a Volkswagen?
jimbear wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:41 am
camshaft, what should we look for to match the stock application?
I assume new push-rods and lifters.
Look for a stock camshaft profile. You will need to press on vendor that they not make their own decision for you. You want stock profile. Say so. When they say, "well we have a mild upgrade, no really, it is better," ask them if they have stock profile. Push rods are not as a matter of course, replaced. Lifters should come from same vendor as camshaft with an assurance that they have matched hardness.

jimbear wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:41 am
Any recommendation on bearings to source?
I like good old fashioned lead babbit bearings vs new aluminum bearings.

jimbear wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:41 am
With regards to the pistons and cylinders, should I have Clyde give me his assessment of them and the pistons?
Clyde has to give you answers to all of the questions here. Engine rebuild advice only ever works in the presence of the engine in question. There are too many variables. Inspection! is key!
Clyde is the one looking at the engine, he is the one you are paying to give his assessments and answers to the below questions. I have my own opinions on gallery plugs, but I cannot give them to you because I am not assessing your gallery plugs from here. I like aluminum gallery plugs because they expand and contract more closely to the case than steel ....

jimbear wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:41 am
Drill and tap my gallery plug holes, correct?
Chase/clean all studs and bolts, correct?
Clyde will be assessing the case in general. Anything we should look for specifically?
Rods, crankshaft, flywheel, and fan will be going to a local and reputable shop for balancing. Hoping to reuse all.
What am I missing? Any backup and assistance would be appreciated.
If Clyde has specific and technical questions, I can answer them, but I don't know how to respond to this general inquiry with any sort of useful . . . /
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 111,155 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,820 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 108,000 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,885 miles

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jimbear
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Re: Pending engine rebuild; 1800

Post by jimbear » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:33 pm

Would this be a good cam to consider?

Web Cam Type 4 Camshaft, 142 Grind, (247/242 Duration, .393/.368" Lift), Solid Lifters, 00-142

Link here
'74 Hardtop Westy
Pretty much stock engine setup

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tommu
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Re: Pending engine rebuild; 1800

Post by tommu » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:44 pm

I, and several others, used a Webcam 00-142. I am very happy with it in my 2.0 fuel injection build. I bought webcam lifters too.

Fan - be careful that the balancer does not take it apart or adjust runout. You could even ask them check for runout as they balance it. Balance your clutch pressure plate too. Some bother to keep a spare pressure plate so they have a balanced one ready to go should they need one. Might as well take pistons with you as well to get them precisely matched. I would recommend finding a shop that only does balancing. They *should* take that job more seriously than a general machine shop.

Don't forget your cam gear. Remove it from the old cam by granding the rivets off of the back (cam side) of the gear.

Check my build for what can go wrong with a) glass bead contamination b) forgetting crank dowels and c) wrong size bearings on the crank. Don't do those things :)

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Amskeptic
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Re: Pending engine rebuild; 1800

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:00 pm

tommu wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:44 pm
I, and several others, used a Webcam 00-142. I am very happy with it in my 2.0 fuel injection build. I bought webcam lifters too.

Fan - be careful that the balancer does not take it apart or adjust runout. You could even ask them check for runout as they balance it. Balance your clutch pressure plate too. Some bother a spare pressure plate so they have a balanced one ready to go should they need one. Might as well take pistons with you as well to get them precisely matched. I would recommend finding a shop that only does balancing. They *should* take that job more seriously than a general machine shop.

Don't forget your cam gear. Remove it from the old cam by granding the rivets off of the back (cam side) of the gear.

Check my build for what can go wrong with a) glass bead contamination b) forgetting crank dowels and c) wrong size bearings on the crank. Don't do those things :)
We have a southwest FL engine build going on where the wrong crank bearings were just discovered ... just a simple transcription error where .010/std was shipped as std/0.10. Keeps you on your toes.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 111,155 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,820 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 108,000 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,885 miles

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tommu
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Re: Pending engine rebuild; 1800

Post by tommu » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:25 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:00 pm
We have a southwest FL engine build going on where the wrong crank bearings were just discovered ... just a simple transcription error where .010/std was shipped as std/0.10. Keeps you on your toes.
Colin
Commiserations. Did they find out before attempting to break in the cam?

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Amskeptic
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Re: Pending engine rebuild; 1800

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:39 am

tommu wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:25 pm
Amskeptic wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:00 pm
We have a southwest FL engine build going on where the wrong crank bearings were just discovered ... just a simple transcription error where .010/std was shipped as std/0.10. Keeps you on your toes.
Colin
Commiserations. Did they find out before attempting to break in the cam?

Absolutely.
This error was identified just prior to step 3,455 subsection A3 paragraph 255:
take case to local machinist for measurement of case-installed main bearings against crankshaft journal diameters
Presenting symptom: "dang, these new bearings sure seem loose on the crank"

The crank was NOT installed in the case for this test measurement.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 111,155 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,820 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 108,000 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,885 miles

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Bleyseng
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Re: Pending engine rebuild; 1800

Post by Bleyseng » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:59 am

jimbear wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:33 pm
Would this be a good cam to consider?

Web Cam Type 4 Camshaft, 142 Grind, (247/242 Duration, .393/.368" Lift), Solid Lifters, 00-142

Link here
Yes, it is the stock 914/411 fuel injection cam grind. Over the Bus stock cam it gives you a slight bit if rpm's and good idle
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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Amskeptic
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Re: Pending engine rebuild; 1800

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:22 pm

Bleyseng wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:59 am
it gives you a slight bit if rpm's and good idle
Let's try this sentence from scratch.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 111,155 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,820 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 108,000 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,885 miles

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Bleyseng
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Re: Pending engine rebuild; 1800

Post by Bleyseng » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:45 am

The stock FI 914 and 411/412 cam grind improves the power into the 4500 rpm range. The stock bus cam grind power range tops out at about 4000 rpms. The hydraulic lifter cam which is of course a way different grind as the lifters are in contact with the cam all the time so the ramps are different.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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