Itinerant Air-Cooled

End-play: In your quest for the perfect minimal end-play, make sure you aren't getting case-to-thrust-bearing play included in your measurement. If there is any significant play there and you don't account for it, it will cause you to put too thick of a shim stack behind the flywheel.

Thanks SlowLane. Before calling it "done," I put four shims on the crank and checked for end-play. This would reveal any thrust bearing fore-aft movement.

Plus, when I installed the bearing it was a really nice press fit into the case. New bearing dowels all around fit snugly and didn't wander.

Three years ago, I had to ask what "an engine tin" was. This time last year I was asking what a dowel pin was. I wonder what questions I'm asking now will be looked back upon fondly?

Robbie

asiab3 wrote:Before calling it "done," I put four shims on the crank and checked for end-play. This would reveal any thrust bearing fore-aft movement.

Yup, that's the ticket. It was during a conversation with Colin that I was made aware of the lurking possibiity of hidden thrust bearing play.

asiab3 wrote: a) Three years ago, I had to ask what "an engine tin" was.

b) This time last year I was asking what a dowel pin was.

c) I wonder what questions I'm asking now will be looked back upon fondly?

Robbie

c) Next year, you will be asking about the bewitching and mysterious "anomalies" that revisit your every hard won answer and almost grasped understanding.

b) then in twenty years, you will be asking "so, in the grand scope of human existence, what really is a dowel pin after all?"

a) then in forty years, you will be asking about engine tins,
"I think I had an engine tin, where's my engine tins? did I have an engine tin? I know I am a engine tin, did you call me an engine tin? NO I DON'T NEED ANY MEDICATION, YOU DAMN ENGINE TIN."

ColinWhere'sMyEngineTins

Update:

Colin asked me in another thread about a rebuild I'm doing. If anyone likes engine details, here are two kinds:


We have a block.




We have a NOS oil cooler.



We have a pulley.



We have heads.




Ergo, we have a long block.



Minus the oil pump…

It's a whopping 1584cc single port engine.
7.5:1 compression.

Modifications include:
- Counterweighted crankshaft
- Porsche swivel-feet adjusters

Notable parts include:
- Elwood Commemorative Under-Cylinder Tins
- NYCynthia Case Parting Line Hardware
- 70crew Commemorative Cylinder Head Studs and Valve Covers


My roommate is building a 2110 dual-carb stroker engine downstairs on our kitchen table at the same time. We keep passing each other's progress in the build. I had the short block first, but there he was setting compression and deck height first. When he found his piston coming out past the top of the cylinder, I overtook him and mocked up all my stock parts, arriving at the same conclusion as my last stock engine build: "Looks good let's glue it together." Now he's waiting on some custom cylinder shims.

Only took two cans of GumOut this time,
Robbie

asiab3 wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:22 pm

Update:
It's a whopping 1584cc single port engine.
7.5:1 compression.
- Counterweighted crankshaft
- Porsche swivel-feet adjusters
- Elwood Commemorative Under-Cylinder Tins
- NYCynthia Case Parting Line Hardware
- 70crew Commemorative Cylinder Head Studs and Valve Covers


My roommate is building a 2110 dual-carb stroker engine downstairs on our kitchen table at the same time. We keep passing each other's progress in the build. I had the short block first, but there he was setting compression and deck height first. When he found his piston coming out past the top of the cylinder, I overtook him and mocked up all my stock parts, arriving at the same conclusion as my last stock engine build: "Looks good let's glue it together." Now he's waiting on some custom cylinder shims.

Only took two cans of GumOut this time,
Robbie

Does your counterweighted crank have the eight dowels?
Why do I hate eight dowels anyway? Is it true that you can't get the flywheel off anymore?

Offer your roommate this Itinerant Air-Cooled Tip unless it is too late:
Do not evereverever use cheap EMPI skinny We-Like-To-Cut-Into-Aluminum/Magnesium cylinder shims, use only the good AirCooled.Net full-size copper shims.
Colin

Amskeptic wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:24 am

Does your counterweighted crank have the eight dowels?
Why do I hate eight dowels anyway? Is it true that you can't get the flywheel off anymore?

Offer your roommate this Itinerant Air-Cooled Tip unless it is too late:
Do not evereverever use cheap EMPI skinny We-Like-To-Cut-Into-Aluminum/Magnesium cylinder shims, use only the good AirCooled.Net full-size copper shims.
Colin

This was the four-dowel DPR crank that we ran on v-blocks during NYCynthia's appointment last summer. I had them make it for me from scratch, which took a few weeks. (They keep the 8-dowel cranks in stock, as most people order those.) My reasoning: Having had an engine apart and in my lap on an extended trip, I want to hedge my bets to easily finding parts in case that ever happens again. A few million 4-dowel flywheels exist around the world. We stock-engine-continent-crossers don't utilize the "benefits" of 8-dowel flywheels, and yes it takes prying to get them off whereas I can wiggle a stock flywheel off by hand without disrespecting my case with a pry-bar.

I found a set of those thin shims on an engine I dismantled a few months ago. Downstairs in the kitchen we have these shims that fit the thrust surface and are wide enough to need cutaways for the head studs. They seem nice, but the resulting compression ratio was somewhere around 9.5:1, so he's waiting on a thicker custom shim set to bring his compression ratio down to approximately 8.5:1. I have never heard of copper cylinder shims that go under the cylinder- only copper sealing rings that go under the head.

My 8mm head stud nuts are currently torqued to 23 ft*lbs, (cross-engine torqued every single nut every stop of the way!,) and they will be released appropriately and brought up to 18 ft*lbs. tomorrow.

Did you know that all our suppliers get their pushrod tubes from the same manufacturer, and that all the pushrod tubes are too long now, and Wolfsburg West and JBugs all have their bins mixed up with short and long tubes and 40-horse-only pushrod tubes are just right on a 1600 if you stretch them a little? I didn't either! Both business seemed oddly receptive to my "sort your bins and call your supplier" message for a Monday morning… However, JBugs didn't seem to care that the $3 fuel pump stand didn't fit the brand new VW case…

Robbie

asiab3 wrote: JBugs didn't seem to care that the $3 fuel pump stand didn't fit the brand new VW case…

Bear in mind that there are brand-new VW (of Brazil) cases that will not fit ANY fuel pump stand, because the internal
hole the stand passes through is bored incorrectly (crooked/ off-center, not just too small). I have one of 'em.

kreemoweet wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:15 am

asiab3 wrote: JBugs didn't seem to care that the $3 fuel pump stand didn't fit the brand new VW case…

Bear in mind that there are brand-new VW (of Brazil) cases that will not fit ANY fuel pump stand, because the internal
hole the stand passes through is bored incorrectly (crooked/ off-center, not just too small). I have one of 'em.

Shit. Are there workarounds? I’m hoping to keep my current long block assembled. But I doubt we can turn the fuel pump stands down very far... I am using a brand new VW of Brazil case... I have another brand new case under my desk at home, I’ll check it out tonight when I get home.

Robbie

kreemoweet wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:15 am

asiab3 wrote: JBugs didn't seem to care that the $3 fuel pump stand didn't fit the brand new VW case…

Bear in mind that there are brand-new VW (of Brazil) cases that will not fit ANY fuel pump stand, because the internal
hole the stand passes through is bored incorrectly (crooked/ off-center, not just too small). I have one of 'em.

Can we just bore out the hole? The plastic serves as the guide bushing for the fuel pump rod. Who is to say that we can't just drill out, check for contact, maybe cock the drill to burnish the tight spot?
Is our dignity to just keep getting assaulted by people who don't care?
Colin

Whew, dodged that bullet. Since my long block is fully assembled, I didn't want to do anything requiring splitting and re-cleaning the case if I didn't have to. I measured the bore of the rod guide at .594" and sanded it down to .588". Now it drops into the case just like the old Bug Me video. The NOS flange I just got in the mail measures at .586", so I guess I'll trim my spare flange down to match.

Old engine got a much needed valve check (no adjustments) for the first time in 4,700 miles today after knocking out some heavy hauling to its own Hollywood-level photo shoot. My photographer is friends with Derek Hill, and recently travelled for 60 days around the world in a Cadillac photo shoot with him. We had a helluva time chatting about shifting with one's fingertips and making my bus look like a million bucks. :)

Robbie

Amskeptic wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:24 am

Do not evereverever use cheap EMPI skinny We-Like-To-Cut-Into-Aluminum/Magnesium cylinder shims, use only the good AirCooled.Net full-size copper shims.
Colin

Does this apply to Type 4 engines too? I ordered from BusDepot. Was very disappointed to receive an Empi vacuum packed set of shims - but they measured ok. Heads are on, just getting the rockers ready so would rather not go back..

tommu wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:24 pm

Does this apply to Type 4 engines too? I ordered from BusDepot. Was very disappointed to receive an Empi vacuum packed set of shims - but they measured ok. Heads are on, just getting the rockers ready so would rather not go back..

As Robbie reined me in with . . . I, Colin, was ranting about cylinder HEAD shims when the discussion was more fairly directed at cylinder BASE shims. So, aluminum base shims *that do fully contact* the cast iron flange surface devoted to being crushed against the case, fine.

Remember the overnight over-torque, morning re-torque of your beautifully oiled and cleaned stud threads and nuts?
Colin

Overnight? I left my 8mm Type 1 studs for three days at 23 ft*lbs before breaking them evenly and resetting to 18 ft*lbs.

What are the “steps” you’d recommend leaving for a Type 4 without sealing rings? With sealing rings?

Robbie

I'm tearing things back down anyway. I'm not happy with how loose my dowel pins are - and I am neurotic that number 1 bearing smeared a little on installation..

And yes to the oily threads!