The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

[asiab3]

Either the seller or the United States Postal Service has managed to destroy the last factory VW set of matching pistons and cylinders. Package arrived today with several fins from two of the cylinders scattered around the box. Completely destroyed. Going to try to salvage the pistons and have them checked out, but they appear to be frozen in the cylinders by the rings, except rings weren't supposed to come with them....

I have no problem paying out the ass for quality parts but the SECOND someone tries to pass this off as acceptable.... I will withhold judgment until I KNOW it was the seller or disgruntled postal employees.

[Xelmon]

Oh what!! Holy moly, that is just amazing. =\

Was it insured at all?

[asiab3]

Oh what!! Holy moly, that is just amazing. =\

Was it insured at all?

USPS says it was "insured" but the shipper had to contact them first. I've been pleasantly apologized to by the seller, and they're communicating with USPS with my reference photos already. I have located a nos Cofap set, but I really really wanted to use the KS's.

Robbie

[Amskeptic]

Either the seller or the United States Postal Service has managed to destroy the last factory VW set of matching pistons and cylinders. Package arrived today with several fins from two of the cylinders scattered around the box. Completely destroyed. Going to try to salvage the pistons and have them checked out, but they appear to be frozen in the cylinders by the rings, except rings weren't supposed to come with them....

I have no problem paying out the ass for quality parts but the SECOND someone tries to pass this off as acceptable.... I will withhold judgment until I KNOW it was the seller or disgruntled postal employees.

Come ON. Sellers know damn well that the shipping services toss packages. It is encumbent upon the shipper to double box + proper filler. I hate hearing this.
Who shipped? NAMES! Tony n Vito gots to "visit" dem.
Colin

[asiab3]

Rockin Robin Automotive, based out of Kentucky somewhere. They've been EXTREMELY comunicative in telling me how their claim with USPS is going. Still, all I know for sure is that the package WAS insured, but the shipper gets all the details and dirty work. I'm more upset about the loss of a "piece of history" than I am about the money.

Are the Cofaps any good?

I have six camshafts to choose from at a local shop, and almost two dozen crank gears. I SHOULD be able to find a match on Monday.

I learned from a VW/Porsche factory technician in the early seventies, that VW had warehouses full of built motors ready to go, but would not put oil in them until they sat for almost a month. He told me this garuntees a leak-free seal between case halves, cam plugs, generator pedestals, and other surfaces with sealant. That makes me curious as to what they used as assembly lube... Surely engine oil would run off and become useless after a long time sitting? Colin, I've read that you dislike moly grease for this purpose- what are your reasons? I know Honda started using moly-fortified lube/oil for their engines right around the time that they were becoming legendary for engine longevity.

Robbie

[Amskeptic]

I learned from a VW/Porsche factory technician in the early seventies, that VW had warehouses full of built motors ready to go, but would not put oil in them until they sat for almost a month. He told me this guarantees a leak-free seal between case halves, cam plugs, generator pedestals, and other surfaces with sealant.

It is the heating of an operating engine that clamps the above together. So long as the engine has not yet been run, it is sensitive to weeping.

That makes me curious as to what they used as assembly lube... Surely engine oil would run off and become useless after a long time sitting? Colin, I've read that you dislike moly grease for this purpose- what are your reasons? I know Honda started using moly-fortified lube/oil for their engines right around the time that they were becoming legendary for engine longevity.

Robbie

I use TRW assembly lubricant, a red/clear zinc-fortified sauce, for the cam lobes and lifters. I use engine oil on bearings. Engine oil does not run off at the molecular level, it maintains a film between bearings and journals just fine. I have heard that zinc-fortified oil/assembly lube will attack lead babbit bearings if allowed to sit too long.
Colin

[asiab3]

I am at a decision-making point. Do I pursue full-flow drilling and tapping to add a filter? Longevity is important to me, but I haven't seen many setups that don't look hacked in. Are the new Schadek oil pumps any good, or is it worth hunting for a NOS one?

I am considering RIMCO Machine near Los Angeles for the case/balancing work, and I'm formulating a quote email to them now. I have two mediocre pairs of heads, I am still holding out for a pair with factory seats.

More to come, including pictures of my NOS 38a generator and regulator, and my quest to catalog the 200+ fastener bits I have no clue about.

Robbie

[Amskeptic]

Do I pursue full-flow drilling and tapping to add a filter?

Seems sensible, but I have seen way too many new failure points introduced to a proven lubrication system in over 25 million vehicles over the span of a half-century.

Keeping your oil bath air filter and intake system tight helps to keep the internals of your engine clean, as does timely oil changes.
I am amazed that Chloe knocks out the big miles and maintains as hygienic a crankcase as any.
Colin

[asiab3]

I am moving along at a glacial pace. I'm a set of heads and tin away from having every single part. Unwrapping my VW factory rods today, I realized I need help getting the cosmoline off without scratching the bearing surfaces. Is there a preferred chemical?

Also, my rod cap nuts are two different styles, with no real pattern between any of the rods. Is this going to be an issue? They came bundled together, but Colin you know what that can sometimes mean……

[Amskeptic]

I am moving along at a glacial pace. I'm a set of heads and tin away from having every single part. Unwrapping my VW factory rods today, I realized I need help getting the cosmoline off without scratching the bearing surfaces. Is there a preferred chemical?

Also, my rod cap nuts are two different styles, with no real pattern between any of the rods. Is this going to be an issue? They came bundled together, but Colin you know what that can sometimes mean……

GumOut removes cryoline.

WEIGH THE RODS! Check that the numbers between the rod and the cap match.
Colin

[asiab3]

Well the title of of this thread mentioned two engines, and since the original rattleboxer is still hauling my person around the western USA, I have to attend to it. The vibrations have been getting worse the last few weeks. Forget about hitting the HP peak in any gear, and forget about coasting downhill, lest I enjoy tinnitus at the age of 25.

Since I have a nice 38a generator with (almost) all the right tin and pulleys, I thought to swap it in with whatever fan I had laying around with the least runout. After finding out the hard way that there is a non-doghouse fan hub, a 30 amp generator fan hub, and a 38 amp generator fan hub, I realized I couldn't swap the Euromax WonderAlternator out for a nice Bosch generator. I settled for a fan inspection (good idea) and ended up replacing it with another doghouse fan that may or may not be more balanced. I CAN say though, that it runs noticeably better. Want to take a look at the old fan and guess why?



That crack goes all the way through to the other side, and looks much worse in person. I've inspected the fan before, but today was the first time I tried to cross-hatch the goop off the hub-shim-fan-spacer surfaces to get the fan to run more true. Glad I did…

The vibration is NOTICABLY better, although the BobD run up to 5k is still vivid in my mind as a goal for the new engine. I speculate that the strange frequencies at which this fan howled was due to the complexity of the crack. I've repaired wood instruments where the slightest hairline crack causes all sorts of fun harmonics and overtones. For instance, idle was fairly smooth, 1200-2000 RPM was unusable. 3000-3400 was tolerable (and limited my cruising speed sometimes,) but anything over 3600 RPM was absolute cacophony. Now there is a few "new" vibrations in the 1200-2000 range, but I again speculate in thinking that my timing may be too advanced off the line- I'll adjust the map later. But the 2400+ range is now on par with the ten other slapped together engines I've driven in the last few months. Chocking this one up as a win!

Robbie

PS- Colin- I pulled a fast one and DIDN'T raise the fan shroud- I removed the four M6 bolts from the fan cover plate, the alt strap, and the special nut off the back with a 36mm socket on a ratcheting breaker bar. 12 minutes from start to having the alternator in my hand, although I don't know if the single port manifold would get in the way of your four M6 plate bolts. I DO say if you do it this way, to check the fan/backing plate gap with the fan out BEFORE you put it back together and have to take it apart to check………

[Amskeptic]

PS- Colin- I pulled a fast one and DIDN'T raise the fan shroud- I removed the four M6 bolts from the fan cover plate, the alt strap, and the special nut off the back with a 36mm socket on a ratcheting breaker bar. 12 minutes from start to having the alternator in my hand, although I don't know if the single port manifold would get in the way of your four M6 plate bolts. I DO say if you do it this way, to check the fan/backing plate gap with the fan out BEFORE you put it back together and have to take it apart to check………

Yes. Good luck! I have driven many Type 1 engines that are smoother than the BobD, including Chloe. I'll be taking Chloe out next summer.
Colin

[asiab3]

Assembly of the New-Old engine began today. Catching up: Factory rebuilt rods, factory reconditioned crank (first undersize all around,) gently used Brazilian case (standard thrust, 20 over mains.) The NOS KS pistons and cylinders got a 100% refund from the post office AND I was allowed to keep them in case I find the world's best welder to repair the cracked fins! Nothing on this engine is made in China, and only my main and camshaft bearings are KS Brazil. Rod bearings are Mahle Germany.

Rod bearing clearances with green (.001" - .003") plasti-gauge:
1: .002"
2: .0015"
3: .0015"
4: .0018"

Tolerance is .0008" to .0027", and Wilson prefers .002"-.0025". Is my rod bearing clearance spread appropriate? I know I'm within spec, but I have a variance of .0005" over the four, and I can't find any info on the appropriate variance between them.

Robbie

PS- did you know there are two lengths of main bearing studs? I didn't, until I had four of one and two of the other length…

[Amskeptic]

Assembly of the New-Old engine began today. Catching up: Factory rebuilt rods, factory reconditioned crank (first undersize all around,) gently used Brazilian case (standard thrust, 20 over mains.) The NOS KS pistons and cylinders got a 100% refund from the post office AND I was allowed to keep them in case I find the world's best welder to repair the cracked fins! Nothing on this engine is made in China, and only my main and camshaft bearings are KS Brazil. Rod bearings are Mahle Germany.

Rod bearing clearances with green (.001" - .003") plasti-gauge:
1: .002"
2: .0015"
3: .0015"
4: .0018"

Tolerance is .0008" to .0027", and Wilson prefers .002"-.0025". Is my rod bearing clearance spread appropriate? I know I'm within spec, but I have a variance of .0005" over the four, and I can't find any info on the appropriate variance between them.

Robbie

PS- did you know there are two lengths of main bearing studs? I didn't, until I had four of one and two of the other length…

I know I would be doing terrible things right about now . . . like mix-n-matching rod bearings just to see if a swap from the tight rod to the loose rod changes the clearances. Then I would mix-n-match the rod/bearing combo on crankshaft throws which would be a sad thing if everything was all balanced and indexed. Then I would file a rod cap if they have a finish that I felt I could comfortably replicate. I seriously do not want rod clearance to be at the sloppy end! These over-undersizes are done in American measurement British legacy idiocy, and our bearings come metric, so the second over/undersize you will be sloppy. How are you going to verify your main bearing clearances?

Man, I would rather be doing engine work right now.
Colin

[asiab3]

Rod bearing clearances with green (.001" - .003") plasti-gauge:
1: .002"
2: .0015"
3: .0015"
4: .0018"

I know I would be doing terrible things right about now . . . like mix-n-matching rod bearings just to see if a swap from the tight rod to the loose rod changes the clearances.

Then it shall be done. No excuses for not, right?

Then I would mix-n-match the rod/bearing combo on crankshaft throws which would be a sad thing if everything was all balanced and indexed.
[/quote

No balancing or mechanical indexing yet; I wanted to get apropriate clearences before comitting to a set of rods. As of now, I'm on my second crankshaft, second set of rods, third set of heads, and second set of bearings. EVERYTHING is suspect in the current parts market. So this shall be experimented with as well.

Then I would file a rod cap if they have a finish that I felt I could comfortably replicate. I seriously do not want rod clearance to be at the sloppy end! These over-undersizes are done in American measurement British legacy idiocy, and our bearings come metric, so the second over/undersize you will be sloppy. How are you going to verify your main bearing clearances?

The imperial/metric garbage is killing me. PICK ONE DAMMIT. Not you, just everybody....

Filing the rod cap would expand the clearences, would it not? I'd rather mix and match to find myself with .018" than file some to achieve .020".

Main bearing clearences, (guessing wildly now,) can be checked with the split #2 main, torquing the case halves together, can they not? I know I'll be physically checking the saddles too, though the acceptable clearence escapses my memory right now.

Man, I would rather be doing engine work right now.
Colin

Last night gave me a *ping ping ping* up a hill in 3rd, so I'm anxiously doing this meticulous work as carefully as I can, all the while reminding myself that the current plant is on borrowed time.

Robbie