Even Porsche makes motor oil for "Classic" cars

[Boxcar]

Was the engine running before teardown?

Not very well, but yes. It was still running when I decided the best thing to do was pull off the highway, shut 'er down and call AAA...

Good Call Right?
If I could ask how long it evidenced a problem,@ miles per hr? till you called for the AAA sky hook?

Valves were dutifully checked before?

sorry just nosy
is yours back up and running?
//Eric

[Boxcar]

I use Brad Penn as I can buy it in Seattle. My wife freaks out when she sees the price per quart....

You sir Bleyseng already probably know amazon finds and "e" sells Brad Penn

[tristessa]

If I could ask how long it evidenced a problem,@ miles per hr? till you called for the AAA sky hook?

Prior to the AAA call, there was roughly one mile from downtown Maupin to the Oasis campground for the annual RendezVW, a weekend spent tearing into the engine to try and figure out what that F*(KING tapping noise was -- including a 200 mile (round-trip) parts run back to Portland in a borrowed car and swapping a cylinder head that was having valve seat recession -- and then a 25-ish mile run out of Maupin to just north of Dufur where the shutdown happened.

Prior to this there was no indication of a problem. Valves were checked/adjusted and oil was changed before heading to the campout, and the drive up over Mt. Hood was entirely uneventful .. first clue there was anything wrong was when I pulled off at the Maupin grocery store for a couple of things and heard a tapping sound. Engine was built by AVP in late '03/early '04, this happened in '09


.. and this doesn't have a lot to do with Porsche marketing oil for "classic" cars.

[Amskeptic]

If I could ask how long it evidenced a problem,@ miles per hr? till you called for the AAA sky hook?

Prior to the AAA call, there was roughly one mile from downtown Maupin to the Oasis campground for the annual RendezVW, a weekend spent tearing into the engine to try and figure out what that F*(KING tapping noise was -- including a 200 mile (round-trip) parts run back to Portland in a borrowed car and swapping a cylinder head that was having valve seat recession -- and then a 25-ish mile run out of Maupin to just north of Dufur where the shutdown happened.

Prior to this there was no indication of a problem. Valves were checked/adjusted and oil was changed before heading to the campout, and the drive up over Mt. Hood was entirely uneventful .. first clue there was anything wrong was when I pulled off at the Maupin grocery store for a couple of things and heard a tapping sound. Engine was built by AVP in late '03/early '04, this happened in '09


.. and this doesn't have a lot to do with Porsche marketing oil for "classic" cars.

We shall continue nonetheless . . . "no indication of a problem" save for a valve adjusting screw that was desperately disappearing down the rocker arm trying to find the valve stem.

[Xelmon]

If I could ask how long it evidenced a problem,@ miles per hr? till you called for the AAA sky hook?

Prior to this there was no indication of a problem. Valves were checked/adjusted and oil was changed before heading to the campout, and the drive up over Mt. Hood was entirely uneventful .. first clue there was anything wrong was when I pulled off at the Maupin grocery store for a couple of things and heard a tapping sound.:

Aye, that sucked. Tris concluded that he may as well have stayed in Maupin and just not futz with his rig, as he spent the entire weekend working on that rig.

( From "Hal's Engine", with justgimmecoffee 2nd to right and my punk-ass on the right)

[Boxcar]

If I could ask how long it evidenced a problem,@ miles per hr? till you called for the AAA sky hook?

Prior to the AAA call, there was roughly one mile from downtown Maupin to the Oasis campground for the annual RendezVW, a weekend spent tearing into the engine to try and figure out what that F*(KING tapping noise was -- including a 200 mile (round-trip) parts run back to Portland in a borrowed car and swapping a cylinder head that was having valve seat recession -- and then a 25-ish mile run out of Maupin to just north of Dufur where the shutdown happened.

Prior to this there was no indication of a problem. Valves were checked/adjusted and oil was changed before heading to the campout, and the drive up over Mt. Hood was entirely uneventful .. first clue there was anything wrong was when I pulled off at the Maupin grocery store for a couple of things and heard a tapping sound. Engine was built by AVP in late '03/early '04, this happened in '09


.. and this doesn't have a lot to do with Porsche marketing oil for "classic" cars.

We shall continue nonetheless . . . "no indication of a problem" save for a valve adjusting screw that was desperately disappearing down the rocker arm trying to find the valve stem.

yes, that seat "migration"..does it not take adjustment out of the valve train?
(remembering , hated the chronic tightening as the seat hammered in..my first uh oh moments with a type four in a Bus were thus, always losing idle, and hard starting as one valve in #3 was tight..but I kept local, and rode the adjustment out to limits, before AVP got some head business from me. sorry for "long strange trip" story)

that tristessa's pictured epic lifter fail was not oil related then, but apparantly riding on I or E valvespring so hard that the lifter ceased to spin on its slight ramp angle, and beganst a machining operation...no Porsche Oil would have saved you there. Nice try on the field repairs though.
Would pulling that offending valve's pushrod, or both and feathering that cylinder possibly...nahh.
may this be the AVP Rebuilt Head lifespan thread?
//Eric

[tristessa]

We shall continue nonetheless . . . "no indication of a problem" save for a valve adjusting screw that was desperately disappearing down the rocker arm trying to find the valve stem.

You're overstating things -- yes, the screw was gradually adjusted farther and farther into the rocker arm, but it didn't suddenly start happening. Having to occasionally adjust the screw inwards because the 3000-mile valve adjustment found a couple of valves at 0.007 instead of the coulda-swore-I-set-it-at-0.006 isn't something I found particularly worrisome. If I'd kept a detailed log of every single valve adjustment, I probably would have noticed earlier, but I don't tend to be that anal .. er, "meticulous."

[Amskeptic]

We shall continue nonetheless . . . "no indication of a problem" save for a valve adjusting screw that was desperately disappearing down the rocker arm trying to find the valve stem.

You're overstating things -- yes, the screw was gradually adjusted farther and farther into the rocker arm, but it didn't suddenly start happening. Having to occasionally adjust the screw inwards because the 3000-mile valve adjustment found a couple of valves at 0.007 instead of the coulda-swore-I-set-it-at-0.006 isn't something I found particularly worrisome. If I'd kept a detailed log of every single valve adjustment, I probably would have noticed earlier, but I don't tend to be that anal .. er, "meticulous."

I read valve adjusting screws like tea leaves now. Without benefit of personal experience with a given engine or maintenance logs, the appearance of the adjustment screw would have . to . have . been . way into the rocker arm with the entire bottom of the lifter rubbed off, no?

I am currently looking at the BobD exhaust rocker arms, two of them have about one additional thread sticking out in comparison to the intakes.

Boxcar, a valve seat seat recession problem is readily identifiable by looking at the threads sticking out above the lock nuts. If one or two valves have noticeably more threads sticking out than the others, that would be evidence of recession. If the lifters have gone flat/been ground down into a facsimile of a pipe, then you would see that adjustment screw way down flush with the lock nut.

I have seen engines where the entire bank of rockers had screws jutting out and the other side of the engine had screws that were all in deep . . . that is more like engine build issues, like a flycut on one side of the engine is different than the other.

In the Hall of Infamy, I have seen some engines with different cylinders and pistons on one side than the other, several heads that were totally different, a couple with sealing rings on one side of the engine but not the other, and Herrnkind's engine had 9/14mm valve adjustment screws on one side and 8/13mm on the other. This can change the appearance of the screws and nuts in a hurry.

It is when you have an individual screw that is totally different than all of its friends, that you are very likely looking at the above issues.
Colin
(we could have fixed that engine tristessa! if the lifter would have just been able to leave its bore . . . )

[tristessa]

I read valve adjusting screws like tea leaves now. Without benefit of personal experience with a given engine or maintenance logs, the appearance of the adjustment screw would have . to . have . been . way into the rocker arm with the entire bottom of the lifter rubbed off, no?

When I adjusted things at Maupin, both pre- and post- disassembly, that's about how the adjustment screw was sitting. When I adjusted the valves a couple days before the Maupin trip, no big signs...

[hambone]

Only takes a second to jot down date/mileage and which valves were tight...it's good info. Also helps with "when the hell did I do that last?". And it becomes sort of a scrapbook after a few years, very nice.
No, I don't collect jars of my gut hair - yet.

[ruckman101]

I would think the lifter would wear slowly until it got through the "hardened" crown, and then went really really really quick. A matter of miles. Entirely conjecture on my part.

neal

[hambone]

That is true, the hardening is only a shell.

[tristessa]

No, I don't collect jars of my gut hair - yet.

Yet.

[ruckman101]

The alternative is the Ford zinc additive. With a fresh spanking new engine, and at the suggestion of apparently Raby, and fancy lifters with a hole in the top to "oil" them suggested by Avery's, or the Penn oil, or the additive, it would seem to be a concern out there. I have been using Castrol 10/30 or 10/40. My lifters have never had catastrophic failures, but were certainly worn to the point of being dished rather than crowned, thus a new set of Febi for this engine. I resisted the new-fangled "self oilers" Avery's suggested. Still running cheapest 10/30 I could find as a break-in oil.


neal

[Westy78]

Still running cheapest 10/30 I could find as a break-in oil.


neal

Not sure that's the best time to be running the cheapest oil? Synthetic no, cheapest, hmm...