Used 2.0 or mechanic?

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BumbleBus
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Used 2.0 or mechanic?

Post by BumbleBus » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:33 pm

Looking for some advice. My 1.7 #CB000076 is tired. Uber-tired. 100-105-85-100 tired. I've been experiencing random total power failures at the most inopportune of times like trying to merge into freeway traffic or make that final 15% climb up to that pristine lake. I've tried "fixing" this issue as best I can with my very, very limited knowledge. Check/cleaned points, plugs, valves etc etc... coil is sparking, fuel is flowing, recharged/reoiled carb filter, replaced fuel filter. No joy. From reading I see it could be a bad carb or perhaps a flaky ignition switch or perhaps the 'sock' filter is gunked from my known-to-be rusty tank or something else?

Anyway... I dearly love good old CB000076 and would love to someday do a total rebuild of this fine specimen, but in the meantime I'd like to keep camping until the snows fly in Oct/Nov. Should I:

A) Pick up an $800 used 2.0 with Solex carbs and in "decent shape" from a very reputable source and store good old CB000076 until such a time as I have a garage again and money to rebuild with affection? I realize I'll need things like a new exhaust and a 210mm flywheel for the 002.. and.. what else?

B) Tow Bumblebus to a real VW mechanic and spend the $72/hr + parts that it might take to get CB000076 through the rest of the summer (and perhaps beyond?).

Thanks for any tips!! Wishing I'd had the money to not have to cancel my Colin trip as I have no doubt he would have had Bumble running a top in no time... else told me what I dread hearing, but my gut is telling me... that it's time for a rebuild.
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SlowLane
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Re: Used 2.0 or mechanic?

Post by SlowLane » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:10 pm

I'd vote for option A, if you feel confident enough to do the swap yourself. Unless your option B mechanic is really hurtin' for work (and why would you go to such a mechanic in the first place?) you're not going to get your bus back from him in any hurry.

I'm guessing here, but you might need to get an electric fuel pump for the carbs on the 2.0l. Is the reputable source also a resource that you can use to help you with the swap?
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BumbleBus
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Re: Used 2.0 or mechanic?

Post by BumbleBus » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:42 am

Thanks for the reply SlowLane...
SlowLane wrote:you might need to get an electric fuel pump for the carbs on the 2.0l.
I have a 3.5lb CB/Carter rotary electric pump already. In fact I'm wondering if the metal filter on that isn't choked at this point even though I've had plastic ones upstream the whole time. Hmm. If I had the pennies I'd get a repo mechanical Airtex (?) again that just came back on the market.
SlowLane wrote:Is the reputable source also a resource that you can use to help you with the swap?
He could yeah, but the motor is about 5hrs away and not worth towing Bumblebus too. Gonna take the Subby down and get a local mechanic to swap. Wish I had an ATV jack and didn't have a dislocated shoulder issue or I'd tackle it myself.

I'm going to give a close look at my ignition switch and see if I can't get it to seat better even without the tiny set screw. Hmm. Even though it feels like a fuel delivery problem. Also going to re-check/adjust valves even though I did it 300 miles ago because I have been running hot for those 300 miles and maybe things are getting out of whack.
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Re: Used 2.0 or mechanic?

Post by BumbleBus » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:44 pm

After fiddling with some other things on CB000076 and the bus still not starting I poured a little capful of gas into the carb and it still wouldn't turn over. Not a gas issue then I guess. I'm wondering if my points burned out? They're gapped per bentley and open/close okay when I hand crank the motor. Bad condenser? How can you tell if your cap/rotor/condenser/points are bad? Mine are only about 300 miles old and look brand new. My coil is good and sparking so something else? But what. Process of elimination continues.

Quick compression question... when I first got the motor compressions were all around 100ish. When I crank on the motor and it doesn't fire eventually my oil idiot light goes out. Does that just mean that I've built up enough oil pressure to put the light out or does it mean that my engine is shot. There is obviously the right amount of oil in there as I dipstick lots. Heh, heh.

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Re: Used 2.0 or mechanic?

Post by bajaman72 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:21 pm

The engine builds oil pressure while cranking causing the oil light to go out.
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Re: Used 2.0 or mechanic?

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:22 pm

BumbleBus wrote:After fiddling with some other things on CB000076 and the bus still not starting I poured a little capful of gas into the carb and it still wouldn't turn over. Not a gas issue then I guess. I'm wondering if my points burned out? They're gapped per bentley and open/close okay when I hand crank the motor. Bad condenser? How can you tell if your cap/rotor/condenser/points are bad? Mine are only about 300 miles old and look brand new. My coil is good and sparking so something else? But what. Process of elimination continues.

Quick compression question... when I first got the motor compressions were all around 100ish. When I crank on the motor and it doesn't fire eventually my oil idiot light goes out. Does that just mean that I've built up enough oil pressure to put the light out or does it mean that my engine is shot. There is obviously the right amount of oil in there as I dipstick lots. Heh, heh.

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Always Learning
You need an elementary IAC 101 Diagnostics lesson. Don't waste the time speculating as to the condition of the points and condensor, get someone to crank the engine briefly and just look at the spark between the coil-to-center-of-distributor-cap wire held 1/4" from a ground. A no spark noted means check the ignition wire to coil #15(+) for 12 volts, go back to the ignition switch if no. A yes spark means that you should recheck timing and spark plug wire positions etc if you have had them out and about.

An oil pressure light going out during cranking means the pump has built up pressure. A good thing. Do not jump to catastrophic places in your mind. Focus, keep it simple, breathe, get it running.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Used 2.0 or mechanic?

Post by BumbleBus » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:39 pm

Amskeptic wrote:Do not jump to catastrophic places in your mind. Focus, keep it simple, breathe, get it running.
:salute: Thank you Sensei! I will do as instructed. I've checked the ohms between + & - and + & center coil and those checked out, but I didn't actually check for spark off the coil tower. I also just today read that overlapping plug wires can cause issues with power loss due to spark overlap or something. Will tidy.
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Re: Used 2.0 or mechanic?

Post by BumbleBus » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:32 am

Decided to do a compression test. Why not. It's been a couple years. Plugs were all pretty darn black. Hmm. #4 - 105, #3 - 95... then my ignition switch failed so I could no longer crank the motor even though my dummy lights were still on. The ignition switch has probably been my random total engine failure problem all along, but we'll see. No 3mm set screw so I'm going to have to Macgyver something to get the switch to stay put... and/or replace it.

I'm not happy with those compressions obviously as they are both down 10 from my last test in '10. CB000076 rebuild coming sooner rather than later it would seem.
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I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

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Re: Used 2.0 or mechanic?

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:13 am

BumbleBus wrote:Decided to do a compression test. Why not. It's been a couple years. Plugs were all pretty darn black. Hmm. #4 - 105, #3 - 95... then my ignition switch failed so I could no longer crank the motor even though my dummy lights were still on. The ignition switch has probably been my random total engine failure problem all along, but we'll see. No 3mm set screw so I'm going to have to Macgyver something to get the switch to stay put... and/or replace it.

I'm not happy with those compressions obviously as they are both down 10 from my last test in '10. CB000076 rebuild coming sooner rather than later it would seem.
Those figures are *fine* so far. Consistency is the more important aspect which you cannot know until you can finish your test. Perform test with warm engine and fresh battery and all cylinders one after the other.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Used 2.0 or mechanic?

Post by BumbleBus » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:36 pm

I re-seated my ignition switch by bending (carefully) some of the end metal, which is like butter. I also added a heavy duty (insulated) spring between the end of the ignition switch and the steering column housing. That sucker ain't going anywhere. I got the compression test done and all 4 cylinders are 100-110 warm. Meh. Good enough for now I suppose. Hmm. I removed my dizzy (009 :pukeleft: ) and installed a pertronix (I know, I know) for now. I have good replacement points/condenser, but in the interests of getting'r running ASAFP... well... anyway... after putting everything back together and cleaning/replacing various other bits/baubles... vroom!! Started right up. A good sign. No more electrical gremlins. Hmm... not idling well at all though... and she dies. Tried timing to the best of my ability with limited marks/references. Seems to "accelerate" well and I see 26-28 BTDC at 3,500ish RPMs. I hear "hissing" at the carb though and can "goose" it to keep it going with vast sucking sounds so I'm convinced now I need to focus on a vaccuum leak or something in the carb. One thing leads to the next. It's a Solex TCIC 34 progressive two barrel. Ugh. Scares me.

Progress though. More or less.
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Re: Used 2.0 or mechanic?

Post by BumbleBus » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:45 pm

BumbleBus wrote:Tried timing to the best of my ability with limited marks/references.
I should clarify this lest anyone gasps in dismay...

I set #1 TDC by referencing rotor and #1 not moving & #2 exhaust only "toggling" as per what I've read. Right? There is a little white dot on my pulley from who knows when that aligns with a sharpie mark on the case so... I'm guessing that's TDC. #3 intake/exhaust "rock" at this point also. Hmm. I think I'm right. Right? My dizzy nick shows #3, but I'm pretty certain it was installed 180 degrees "backwards" by some PO/mech. All valves are in spec... that I know how to do at least. I rotate pulley to what I'm pretty sure is 7.5 BTDC, which has another sharpie mark about an inch.. maybe a little less.. to the right of what I think is TDC. Hmm. Then adjust the dizzy to spark #1 at that point... it didn't need any movement really though, which makes sense since I guess. Then I start it up and feather it for a few minutes to get it a tiny bit warm at least. Then I strobe it and try to decipher the scratched off numbers of the 40 year old timing scale I re-attached to my pulley. The TDC "white dot" on the pulley goes left over 2/3rds the way down the scale to what I swear looks like an old 26 or 28.

That's all I got. :rr:
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Re: Used 2.0 or mechanic?

Post by DjEep » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:45 pm

Did ya knock the brake booster line of the intake manifold? Those carbs hiss a bit normally, but won't-idle-unless-I-keep-feathering-it sounds like not-enough-gas-either-from-vacuum-leak-or-gummy-carb.

If it runs ok-ish when you goose it, and your timing marks aren't grossly off, it sounds like your timing isn't the heart of the problem, so leave it where you thought was about right for now.

We know you have spark, because it does run, sort of. And we know you have (some) compression, cuz ya checked it. So back we go to there being some lack of fuel. You're on the right track.

Clean that carb out and triple check for vacuum leaks. Check the rubber boots on the intake runners and the gaskets on the heads.
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Re: Used 2.0 or mechanic?

Post by BumbleBus » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:21 pm

I managed to get some good camping fun in last weekend ( http://bumbleb.us ), but had a hell of a time goosing the gas enough to get home. It's hardly surprising considering this is what I found when I removed my tank outlet (note no sock filter left in there).

Image

I flushed the tank with a gallon of gas, put a new Israeli plastic filter inline before the CB rotary pump and away we went camping. Getting there was nice, getting home not so much. Despite that the fuel filter had totally clear gas in it and was full I was getting starvation events allllllll the way home. Pump, pump, engine catches, big backfire and away we go for another minute or two until power fades again... pump, pump, catch, POP, drive etc. etc. Not fun. I'm thinking my electric rotary pump is probably shot at this point as well because it's about 10x quieter than when I got it and sounds weak. Lord knows I've been asking a lot of it this summer.

My 1700 has the old mechanical pump still mounted but not hooked up. Can these old mechanicals be rebuilt/repurposed? I see this here:

http://www.eisparts.com/021127025A/Fuel ... ,New~.html

And Autozone has an Airtex 1442 also for like 3x the price (and out of stock). Hmm.

I'd like to go back to a mechanical pump once I replace my rusty ass tank sometime this winter (thankfully I have a pristine tank from a '70 waiting for the swap). Curious other experiences with these mechanical options. Thanks. Bumblebus is back in storage for now since I can't access the tank without dropping the motor/tranny and/or sawzalling the two over tranny firewall bolts. Hmm.
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Re: Used 2.0 or mechanic?

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:35 pm

BumbleBus wrote:I managed to get some good camping fun in last weekend ( http://bumbleb.us ), but had a hell of a time goosing the gas enough to get home. It's hardly surprising considering this is what I found when I removed my tank outlet (note no sock filter left in there).

Image

I flushed the tank with a gallon of gas, put a new Israeli plastic filter inline before the CB rotary pump and away we went camping. Getting there was nice, getting home not so much. Despite that the fuel filter had totally clear gas in it and was full I was getting starvation events allllllll the way home. Pump, pump, engine catches, big backfire and away we go for another minute or two until power fades again... pump, pump, catch, POP, drive etc. etc. Not fun. I'm thinking my electric rotary pump is probably shot at this point as well because it's about 10x quieter than when I got it and sounds weak. Lord knows I've been asking a lot of it this summer.

My 1700 has the old mechanical pump still mounted but not hooked up. Can these old mechanicals be rebuilt/repurposed? I see this here:

http://www.eisparts.com/021127025A/Fuel ... ,New~.html

And Autozone has an Airtex 1442 also for like 3x the price (and out of stock). Hmm.

I'd like to go back to a mechanical pump once I replace my rusty ass tank sometime this winter (thankfully I have a pristine tank from a '70 waiting for the swap). Curious other experiences with these mechanical options. Thanks. Bumblebus is back in storage for now since I can't access the tank without dropping the motor/tranny and/or sawzalling the two over tranny firewall bolts. Hmm.
I like the VW pumps in the heat. Any electric rotary 3-5psi pump will do just fine.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Used 2.0 or mechanic?

Post by bajaman72 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:35 pm

I recently purchased one (I think from EIS) but have not had a chance to test it. The original and the new one I purchased both appear to be rebuildable. Not sure on the kits, I'd be interested in one I think if you find them.
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1969 Transporter - Project
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