'69 1600 Loss of Power

ruckman101 · Post by **ruckman101** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:01 pm

I know exactly how much it is before sales tax, sitting down? $1,450.

neal

Hippie · Post by **Hippie** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:10 pm

hambone, I don't know for sure if there isn't any midwestern machine shops for ACVW, but I doubt there is any good ones.
This case is a CB performance case, AS41 alloy like original. It set me back about $650. It has the reinforcement behind cylinder #3, 8mm studs, and all that good stuff...Never been re-machined either...Got to try to save it.

Filters...uh, yeah...I am all for oil filters (obviously, 'cause I put one on) I think they enhance engine life if they are of any good quality. Had this had a filter set-up when that first oil pump blew scratchy metal all throughout, there would almost certainly be much less damage to the bearing surfaces. (But, I haven't even looked at them yet.)

Moor pichers:

Here's that CB Performance in/out full flow oil pump. I have had good luck with CB's stuff so far. But I am wondering what I will find of the aluminum cover plate when I remove it to see how it has held up. I am going out of town this weekend, so it will be the coming week.

Sylvester · Post by **Sylvester** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:12 pm

ruckman101 wrote:I know exactly how much it is before sales tax, sitting down? $1,450.

neal

Yikes! I was sitting down when I read that. Holy Toledo just for a case.

hambone · Post by **hambone** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:09 pm

Your case is probably fine. It still may need machining however.

Hippie · Post by **Hippie** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:13 pm

Cheeses! I no pay for that super case! Hoping to do the whole shebang for less than that.

Well, I found a few minutes down there to pull the pump apart:
The cover plate has no more wear that the steel covers I'm used to.
The gears' backlash looks great. The oil pump is fine. The bearings must be pretty shot I guess.
Also, the engine really overheated...I smell burnt motor oil every time I open something up.

Eav'n moore pichers:

Hippie · Post by **Hippie** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:16 pm

hambone wrote:Your case is probably fine. It still may need machining however.

I hope not, but I agree, it's prolly OK overall.

Hippie · Post by **Hippie** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:43 pm

Well, there was a little time to work on this today. Curiosity is driving me on.

Here's the good head, 1-2 cylinders:

Here's the bad head, 3-4 cylinders--I wonder why this side looks like it ran too hot. Vacuum leak? The exhaust valves look pretty white:

#3 exhaust seat is sunk into the head pretty good:

The pistons and cylinders are toast. Actually the cylinders look fair, but the pistons are scuffed. The worst two by far are on the "bad" side, cylinders 3-4. This is #3 piston, and you can see a bit of #4 to the right. What caused this? metallic debris from that old oil pump that shredded back in 2004--or overheating? (the rings look pretty good):

I think I got all the case nuts/bolts off. Time to tap the case apart to look at the shafts and bearings...maybe tomorrow.

Hippie · Post by **Hippie** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:05 pm

The main bearings and crank journals are pretty deeply scratched, and the saddles (bores) are fairly hammered. The thrust on #1 is still perfectly snug (bearing to saddle.)
The lifters to lifter bore and cam bearing clearances measure .002" to .003" The cam is well within spec, but the lifters I don't know...seem good. I guess it needs an align bore, crank grind, and oversize/undersize bearings.

Anybody know of a good midwest VW machine shop? I will ship if the price and reputation are right.
Edit: vwdubyah73 already answered my this question

Post by **Amskeptic** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:20 pm

Hippie wrote: #3 exhaust seat is sunk into the head pretty good:

Hippie, based on the photograph, it looks like the head-to-seat area is not damaged, but the valve itself has recessed because of a soft seat, like what happened to the Squareback on me. In this case, replacing the seat is a solution, the head itself would be OK. Check by removing valve. If contact surface is really broad and shiny, then it is only the seat, not the head aluminum collapsing under the seat.
Colin

(p.s. I don't see hot symptoms. I see a rich running side, yes, but not a hot running side, it looked OK)

ruckman101 · Post by **ruckman101** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:24 pm

Oi vey.

I've certainly seen worse. The earlier you can call it, the more $ saved.

neal

Hippie · Post by **Hippie** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:47 am

Amskeptic wrote:Hippie, based on the photograph, it looks like the head-to-seat area is not damaged, but the valve itself has recessed because of a soft seat, like what happened to the Squareback on me. In this case, replacing the seat is a solution, the head itself would be OK. Check by removing valve. If contact surface is really broad and shiny, then it is only the seat, not the head aluminum collapsing under the seat.
Colin

(p.s. I don't see hot symptoms. I see a rich running side, yes, but not a hot running side, it looked OK)

Really? Wow. I thought chalky white valve head was a sign of too hot. The plugs looked pretty good. Light brown on bad side, darker brown on good side. No gray or white. No erosion.

I got another head with a good seat. I wonder if I can take the seat and matching valve out of it and put it into this head?
How hot do I need to get it? Or should I take it to a machine shop for that?

Opinions please: Assuming the camshaft and lifters are good....I think they are. They look great, and the clearances are well within tolerance, (1) should I just get the main bearing bores align bored, (2) new forged crankshaft (or re-grind this one)
(3) appropriate new main and rod bearings (4) new cam bearings (5) new piston/cylinder set?
I guess I still need to check the rods and journals.

Oi vey, Neal, so many parts. Wish I could just run this across town for machining/bearings/measurments/advice. But since its not a small block Chevy, I guess I have to mail it off and piece it (the parts I mneed and the steps to be taken) together in my mind.

Post by **Amskeptic** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:41 am

Hippie wrote: I got another head with a good seat. I wonder if I can take the seat and matching valve out of it and put it into this head?
How hot do I need to get it? Or should I take it to a machine shop for that?

It is only the province of a very *good* air-cooled machine shop. New guides have to be installed to make sure of concentricity. New seat only. Old seat will be only concentric to its old guide.
Colin

Hippie · Post by **Hippie** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:17 pm

Amskeptic wrote:It is only the province of a very *good* air-cooled machine shop. New guides have to be installed to make sure of concentricity. New seat only. Old seat will be only concentric to its old guide.
Colin

Makes sense. OK, so I'll have it rebuilt or exchange it.

bajaman72 · Post by **bajaman72** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:40 pm

Search around for good/rebuilt ones. I have been finding pretty good deals and they seem to be working out okay.

Hippie · Post by **Hippie** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:26 pm

bajaman72 wrote:Search around for good/rebuilt ones. I have been finding pretty good deals and they seem to be working out okay.

I will thanks. (New SPs are NLA anyway.) I've had good luck with them too, actually unless I get a big vacuum leak.

Itinerant Air-Cooled

Itinerant Air-Cooled

'69 1600 Loss of Power

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