Oversized Ball Joints

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tommu
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Oversized Ball Joints

Post by tommu » Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:57 pm

I have a NOS set of ball joints for Gary the 76 Bus - but they are oversized. Would anyone know what size the ball-joint socket (?) will need to be honed out to?

I am generally worried about getting these installed. I haven't seen another set of NOS ball joints out there - and last time I had a shop press some in for me they ignored my instructions and pressed them in the wrong way. I think Colin had the same experience.

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asiab3
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Re: Oversized Ball Joints

Post by asiab3 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:39 pm

Due to the scarcity of your parts, it might be worth communicating your need to Wolfgang International. They have a busy core deposit program for OG suspension components. I would put money on them occasionally tossing out arms that would only accept oversized joints, or occasionally encountering an oversize "B" [sic] set of arms.

They press hundreds if not thousands of VW ball joints in per year, so I really doubt they'd mess any up.

Bentley is surprisingly unhelpful, simply stating:
"The joints will be .030" larger"
and
"The holes will be .030 larger"

I've gotten good and speedy phone help from Wolfgang Int. before, good luck!

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
142k miles with me.
319k miles on Earth.

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Re: Oversized Ball Joints

Post by tommu » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:59 pm

I will call them. The place I was referred to locally told me they always use Lemforder, that Lemforder are OEM and they have no idea why I am bothering with NOS. So I’ll not use them.

I will give Wolfgang a call. I am getting close to buying the press and cups to do the work myself. All in it’ll be around $300 for tools.

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Re: Oversized Ball Joints

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:01 am

tommu wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:59 pm
I will call them. The place I was referred to locally told me they always use Lemforder, that Lemforder are OEM and they have no idea why I am bothering with NOS. So I’ll not use them.

I will give Wolfgang a call. I am getting close to buying the press and cups to do the work myself. All in it’ll be around $300 for tools.

If your arms are original, and the bus tracks nicely, do not exchange your arms. Any arms available for exchange can have a history that you know nothing about. The Road Warrior had Bus Boys exchange arms and the camber adjuster barely was able to hold the r/f wheel at the correct camber.

"They have no idea why I am bothering with NOS." ? What is this?
"So I'll not use them"? Please specify.
Colin ?

(review construction techniques and compare to whatever you end up using)
Image
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

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tommu
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Re: Oversized Ball Joints

Post by tommu » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:29 pm

I have genuine Vw/Audi ball joints. The local shop was suggesting that Lemforder would be just as good.

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Re: Oversized Ball Joints

Post by tommu » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:34 pm

Wolfgang Int have never seen oversized arms. These oversized balljoints seem more trouble than they are worth..

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asiab3
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Re: Oversized Ball Joints

Post by asiab3 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:07 pm

A cylinder hone, harbor freight press, and some time... :)

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
142k miles with me.
319k miles on Earth.

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Re: Oversized Ball Joints

Post by SlowLane » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:11 am

Amskeptic wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:01 am
tommu wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:59 pm
I will call them. The place I was referred to locally told me they always use Lemforder, that Lemforder are OEM and they have no idea why I am bothering with NOS. So I’ll not use them.
"They have no idea why I am bothering with NOS." ? What is this?
"So I'll not use them"? Please specify.
Colin
If I may translate: "The local shop to which I had been referred expressed the opinion that ball joints from Lemforder, being an OEM supplier to VW, ought to be of acceptable quality for my purposes, so they did not understand why I was being adamant about using the NOS ball joints that I had taken great pains to source. Given their recalcitrance to perform the work that I asked of them to my specification, I have decided to not avail myself of their services."

Channelling Sir Humphrey there for a bit...
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

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Re: Oversized Ball Joints

Post by tommu » Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:37 pm

asiab3 wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:07 pm
A cylinder hone, harbor freight press, and some time... :)

Robbie
Do you accept the challenge?

:cheers:

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Re: Oversized Ball Joints

Post by tommu » Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:46 pm

SlowLane wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:11 am
Amskeptic wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:01 am
tommu wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:59 pm
I will call them. The place I was referred to locally told me they always use Lemforder, that Lemforder are OEM and they have no idea why I am bothering with NOS. So I’ll not use them.
"They have no idea why I am bothering with NOS." ? What is this?
"So I'll not use them"? Please specify.
Colin
If I may translate: "The local shop to which I had been referred expressed the opinion that ball joints from Lemforder, being an OEM supplier to VW, ought to be of acceptable quality for my purposes, so they did not understand why I was being adamant about using the NOS ball joints that I had taken great pains to source. Given their recalcitrance to perform the work that I asked of them to my specification, I have decided to not avail myself of their services."

Channelling Sir Humphrey there for a bit...
Indeed. Damn the brevity principle.

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Re: Oversized Ball Joints

Post by SlowLane » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:31 pm

Might I further suggest that, if your arms are within spec for standard sized ball joints (ie. haven't been "ovalled-out" such that they require boring out to the oversize dimension to fit your oversized ball joints), then it would be a shame to open them up simply to fit the rare OEM gems that you have acquired.

Maybe it would be a more conservative approach to see if you can source some of the "OE Brand" ball joints that Colin serendipitously discovered and save the oversize OEM joints for when/if you really need them.

But I may not be up on the market dynamics. If the only NOS balljoints available are the oversized ones, and if that is because there never was much demand for them because the arms rarely ovalled out, then it makes perfect sense to sacrifice a set of arms to fit the oversized joints.

Pardon the waffling.
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

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Re: Oversized Ball Joints

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:27 pm

SlowLane wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:31 pm
Might I further suggest that, if your arms are within spec for standard sized ball joints (ie. haven't been "ovalled-out" such that they require boring out to the oversize dimension to fit your oversized ball joints), then it would be a shame to open them up simply to fit the rare OEM gems that you have acquired.

Maybe it would be a more conservative approach to see if you can source some of the "OE Brand" ball joints that Colin serendipitously discovered and save the oversize OEM joints for when/if you really need them.

But I may not be up on the market dynamics. If the only NOS balljoints available are the oversized ones, and if that is because there never was much demand for them because the arms rarely ovalled out, then it makes perfect sense to sacrifice a set of arms to fit the oversized joints.

Pardon the waffling.

Good afternoon, it has come to the attention of this board, otherwise known in actually as me, seeing as I am the Administrator often serving in the third person, but not posting in the third person as it is somewhat ... stuffy, and we like to proffer our wares and services in a rather modest fashion with a humble affect, that a member or guest might be edified by a helpful suggestion as to the resolution of his question, if not issue, regarding the use of NOS ball joints of an established oversize in potentially standard size torsion arms.
You are most welcome for my enlightening reply,
ColinPompousAssHat
(stick the oversize joints in your own reamed arms)
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

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