My 1st bleeding experience on Thing not so good!!

[amishman]

So, I have finally come to the conclusion of my 2 to 3 year brake job. All buckled up and time to experience my first brake bleeding. Took me forever to get to this point but I am determined to get this job done so I can move on to other stuff. So far though with this bleeding, not so good.



I have a generic Mighty Vac style setup from Harbor Freight. Bleeding seems to be one of those grey areas I guess I don't like much. Bubbles here, bubbles there, is it too many, I always see bubbles, what are bubbles exactly, you get my drift. I guess until you can see a good bleed for yourself, it is hard to tell whether I am doing it right. Not like bolt goes here, tighten, torque, done. No grey area.

Also having thoughts on getting one of those single person single bottle bleeders and trying that but that is just more money and if I am correct, I would also have to bleed the master cylinder if I do that router where if I stay vacuum style, the MC can be left alone. ???

Anyway, I have started with the rear passenger side tire 1st. The pump adapter does not to me get a real nice seal on the bleeding nipple. If I pump up to 10 it goes down to 0 without opening the bleeder valve. If I stick the adapter up to my finger it holds fine so I know it is just not a perfect adapter to nipple fit. Anyway, I started the job anyway and did get a couple inches of fluid over in the jar. Making sure MC stays full. I just don't know if the air is out or if I have bubbles or that I just need to pull through 2 inches of fluid and bolt her down and move on.

The sucky part is driver rear I guess I did not tighten the brake line to the wheel cylinder and all that pumping in the other side, minutes later I see nice puddle of fluid all over the inner drum and tire and on floor. Nice. I am such a dumb ass. hehehe. So, halt the press, clean it up, fluid may have entered adjusting star holes from rear so I decided to remove tire and drum and all that crap again to see if I had fluid all over my nice new pads. Luckly, very little got in and pads seem fine. So, I buttoned all that back up and called it quits for the night.

Anyway, anyone here use the vacuum method. Should I expect that gauge to go from 10 to 0 in a few seconds as seals are just not that good on these things and just pump the sucker up to 10 and quickly loosen bleeder and get some fluid and tighten it and just do that on each drum until I get 2 inches of fluid from each and see if this does the job?

Any advice on using this vacuum method would be great. Maybe a little inspiration. I was feeling down after my fluid mishap but will be better tomorrow I am sure.

By the way, should the fluid bottle be Above or Below the wheel cylinder while I do this. Today I had it below on the ground. I am just awkward at this like riding a bike for the 1st time.



tj

[Ritter]

I've had good luck with something like this:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... ke+bleeder

I don't know why it worked, but it did, even after changing out rubber brake lines.

[dtrumbo]

Having been through hell trying to bleed my brakes by myself, I totally feel for you!

I'm betting you've identified your problem in that the Mighty-Vac isn't making a good enough seal on your bleeder so you're going to see bubbles forever. See if you can figure a way to get a tighter seal and I bet you'll have better results.

I've had good luck with something like this:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... ke+bleeder

I don't know why it worked, but it did, even after changing out rubber brake lines.

I have not used this, but it sure looks like it would do the trick and it's cheap enough to experiment with.

I HAVE tried (with no success so far) the homemade "Power-Bleeder" which is basically a garden sprayer attached to the fluid reservoir cap. You use it to force fluid through the system. Kind of the opposite of the Mighty-Vac. Since I couldn't get that to work, I gave up and enlisted my wife to be the "down-up-down-up" person on the pedal and just did it the old-fashioned way. Unfortunately, the novelty of this has worn off for her and once again, I'm trying to find a successful way to bleed my brakes myself. I think I'll give that doo-dad Ritter suggested a try.

[amishman]

I've had good luck with something like this:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... ke+bleeder

I don't know why it worked, but it did, even after changing out rubber brake lines.

ok, I purchased this. Tell me about the red and black adapter. I can't tell how to use them on vw bleeder. The holes on these adapter are too small. Are they not used for VW? Do I just slip the clear tube over my bleeder instead and bypass these adapters? Then dip valve side in bottle with small amount of fluid in it. Then bleed. Thanks, tj

[Amskeptic]

Vacuum bleeders are like downstream blowers for bus heat, they suck.
And sucking is a problem. Sucking exhaust in through heat exchanger seams when the factory pressurizes them so only fresh air leaks out, thus keeping your heater air a bit cleaner, is like vacuuming your brake lines where you could allow air in through a slight loose seal at the bleder nipple or anywhere else in the system. Pressure bleeders make more sense. The classic pedal pusher and person at each wheel cylinder works well when you have a good team.
Colin

[vdubyah73]

.http://www.autozone.com/selectedZip,026 ... ectZip.htm
AutoZone.com | Shopping | Parts | Product Detail - Brake Bleeder Screw



Try this. You replace the bleeder on each wheel with one of these. Run a hose to a bottle with enough fluid to cover the end of hose. Crack the bleeder loose and pump the brakes a couple times. Close the bleeder and move on to the next wheel. Check your reservoir level frequently, if you run it dry you have to start over. I have bled brakes with these several times by myself.

The mighty vac will always suck air around the hose to bleeder seal. You might get a better seal with a zip tie around it like a hose clamp. The self bleeders come in different thread sizes. I have seen different size bleeders on the same car. When wheel cylinders and calipers are rebuilt you never know what they had to do to save the core. Adjust your drum brakes before bleeding, that will make it easier to bleed also.

My favorite method is to take an old reservoir cap, drill a small hole and squeeze a hose through it. Rig a connection to an air compressor and turn the regulator down to about 10 psi. Apply 10 psi to the reservoir and go around the wheels bleeding the brakes into a bottle so you can see the bubbles. Again check the reservoir often. This method takes about 20 minutes to bleed or flush the system of old brake fluid.


My mighty vac is now simply a vacuum gauge/pump for testing vacuum signals and whether or not vacuum devices are working.

Bill

[Ritter]

I've had good luck with something like this:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... ke+bleeder

I don't know why it worked, but it did, even after changing out rubber brake lines.

ok, I purchased this. Tell me about the red and black adapter. I can't tell how to use them on vw bleeder. The holes on these adapter are too small. Are they not used for VW? Do I just slip the clear tube over my bleeder instead and bypass these adapters? Then dip valve side in bottle with small amount of fluid in it. Then bleed. Thanks, tj

That one is not exactly like the one I have. However, all things being equal, there should be a little one-way valve in the black dealybob. Try to blow through it each way. When you figure out which end allows you to blow through, that's the end you put to the bleeder. Pump the pedal a few times then run around to see that the tube is still attached and that it is filling/ed with brake fluid. Obviously, have it drain into a container so you don't contaminate that nice soil you've got there. Another consideration, you may need to experiment with hose diameters to get a good tight fit around the bleeder.

Also, if I recall correctly, if your drum brakes are not adjusted correctly, you don't get much flow out of the bleeders.

My disclaimer: Everyone I asked about these said they don't work. Mine did. Persistence pays. I successfully bled my whole system with one. Good luck!

[amishman]

Edit. I did purchase some clear tube but will use a small piece on top of this KD Tool and see if that works. If it bombs, I have 4 foot of clear tube and I can bleed the old fashioned way as needed. Wish me luck. tj

Has me really baffled now as I blow through the hose and the end that at least I could push over my bleeder valve looks to be the end that drops in the bottle instead. The other end that has this valve on it would in no way connect to the bleeder. Maybe if I had some extra clear tubing I could run it over the valve and then onto the bleeder.

I think I am just going to go "amish" on this one and head to town and buy some clear tubing and just wait for my helper (wife) to assists in brake pushing and get out of this whole one man job. It seems every one of these fancy devices I get don't have a good fit or.

Anyway, thanks for the help all.

I will get this sucker bled if I have to stick my mouth over the bleeder like a brake fluid vampire and suck out all the air in the system.

tj

[amishman]

Success. The KD Tool with an add-on clear tube on top of the valve did the trick. I drove my Thing for the 1st time in almost 3 years for a wopping 1 to 2 miles and parked her back in the garage for some more brake adjusting tomorrow to dial it in.

tj

[Ritter]

Success. The KD Tool with an add-on clear tube on top of the valve did the trick.

I knew tenacity would pay off!

[Amskeptic]

Success. The KD Tool with an add-on clear tube on top of the valve did the trick. I drove my Thing for the 1st time in almost 3 years for a wopping 1 to 2 miles and parked her back in the garage for some more brake adjusting tomorrow to dial it in.

tj

Be proud.
Colin

[honeybus]

I've had good luck with something like this:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... ke+bleeder

I don't know why it worked, but it did, even after changing out rubber brake lines.

ok, I purchased this. Tell me about the red and black adapter.

That one is not exactly like the one I have. However, all things being equal, there should be a little one-way valve in the black dealybob.

Dude, that's IT!! !!

My secret is out....

In order to COMPENSATE for the lack of a one-way valve, simply put the meaty palm of your hand on the opened brake reservoir when the brake pedal is coming UP. This will cause a pressure buildup at the top of the reservoir and not allow the fluid to be sucked back in at the opened brake bleeder screw (with hose, bottle, etc..)

To purge my bus brake fluid, I used blue colored brake fluid. I wanted to see when the old was out and the fresh was in.

Since I replaced everything but a few metal brake lines, my system was essentially DRY.

I filled the reservoir, left the cap off, cracked the appropriate brake bleeder screw, attached the clear hose / empty bottle and while standing OUTSIDE the bus, leaning in at the floor level, at the front of the driver seat, I did this:

With brake reservoir uncovered by right hand -

• Push brake pedal down with left hand and hold the brake pedal down;
  Put palm of right hand over open brake reservoir, making it air tight;
  Release brake pedal that is being held down with left hand;
  Take palm of right hand OFF open brake reservoir (i. e., leave the brake reservoir uncovered by right hand);
  
  REPEAT 11 times:

PUSH pedal, COVER reservoir, RELEASE pedal, UNCOVER reservoir, back to PUSH pedal (sing a happy song while you do this 12 times)

Each repetition will purge a little more than 1/6 oz fluid out the brake bleeder screw. Although this seems a small amount, you can 1.5 to 2 oz purged in no time at all. Twelve repetitions = one cycle = approx 1.5 - 2 oz


Once you get the idea and the routine, you would be able to re-fill the reservoir with the right amount each time by having an estimated 2 oz to put in the reservoir every 12 pumps (it takes 15-20 seconds to do one cycle of 12 pumps).

SIX repetitions is all it took me to get the system purged to the right rear brake.

Left rear side a bit less since I had flushed all the ways back to the 'T' in the rear, but the front calipers were also empty so it took an appropriate time for those.

This is a QUICK way to purge your system completely. By yourself!!!

Once you try it, you will probably want to purge your brake fluid at the recommended intervals, not every thirty years as we do now....

32 oz if you don't make mistakes, another 4 oz for over-kill (flushing more than needed because you were not watching the loop in the clear hose at the brake bleeder screw fill up with the blue colored brake fluid. Next time just use COTS clear brake fluid to see the segue.)

Barry sends