squirrelly at 65 mph

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zabo
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Re: squirrelly at 65 mph

Post by zabo » Sun May 15, 2016 10:59 am

So after the above discussion I was pretty sure it was my ball joints. Now im not so sure.
I removed the tie rods and the tires moved pretty easily
https://youtu.be/tzFD0Udh80I

With the tie rods back on its about 10x harder.
Unfortunately my phone ran out of space at this point but you can tell its harder and you can hear me grunt.
https://youtu.be/6C-26HoilA8

Unbolting the steering damper again made it much easier to turn.
Not as easy as without tie rods connected but much easier.

both wheels exhibited near equal resistance.
60 beetle
78 bus

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wcfvw69
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Re: squirrelly at 65 mph

Post by wcfvw69 » Sun May 15, 2016 2:22 pm

I agree. The first video looked good for not much binding with just the ball joints. When you hooked the tie rods back up, was the steering gear drag link hooked up to the steering gear?

Basically, you need to isolate what exactly is binding. The steering damper, the center link or the steering gear.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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zabo
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Re: squirrelly at 65 mph

Post by zabo » Sun May 15, 2016 4:05 pm

the drag link was hooked up. I just went back under and disconnected it and still had a lot of resistance.

i feel like ive been through all the steps but am still missing something.

how much resistance should a steering damper have?
60 beetle
78 bus

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Amskeptic
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Re: squirrelly at 65 mph

Post by Amskeptic » Sun May 15, 2016 7:26 pm

zabo wrote:the drag link was hooked up. I just went back under and disconnected it and still had a lot of resistance.

i feel like ive been through all the steps but am still missing something.

how much resistance should a steering damper have?
The damper should be like a shock absorber. The front wheels should turn lock to lock easily at slow speed, but the damper will resist fast movement. If the wheels turn easily without tie rods, center pin! BUT! If pin falls out easily, then it is the clamping of the seals, boots caps, etc at the relay lever. If the pin is stuck in the bore (like that old one) you might need to hone the bushings carefully!
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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zabo
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Re: squirrelly at 65 mph

Post by zabo » Mon May 16, 2016 3:36 am

Thats the thing. while the pin didnt fall out it does come out without too much coaxing. As i stated in the previous page with the centerpin totally removed the wheels are still hard to turn.

i will continue investigating
60 beetle
78 bus

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Amskeptic
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Re: squirrelly at 65 mph

Post by Amskeptic » Mon May 16, 2016 5:31 am

zabo wrote:Thats the thing. while the pin didnt fall out it does come out without too much coaxing. As i stated in the previous page with the centerpin totally removed the wheels are still hard to turn.

i will continue investigating
OK, I got slightly confused.

With tie rods *removed from relay lever, but attached to steering knuckle, wheels turn easily, yes, as the tie rod is allowed to arc with wheel? Now try to keep tie rod parallel with torsion tubes as you turn wheel. Does it get harder in a substantial way? Tie rod ball joints are stiff.
ColinMustRunToWorkNow
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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zabo
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Re: squirrelly at 65 mph

Post by zabo » Mon May 16, 2016 6:02 am

Amskeptic wrote:
zabo wrote:Thats the thing. while the pin didnt fall out it does come out without too much coaxing. As i stated in the previous page with the centerpin totally removed the wheels are still hard to turn.

i will continue investigating
OK, I got slightly confused.

With tie rods *removed from relay lever, but attached to steering knuckle, wheels turn easily, yes, as the tie rod is allowed to arc with wheel? Now try to keep tie rod parallel with torsion tubes as you turn wheel. Does it get harder in a substantial way? Tie rod ball joints are stiff.
ColinMustRunToWorkNow
Ok I will check that next-
I just made a video of my steering damper just to confirm this is in proper order.
take a look- thanks
https://youtu.be/ERhaUUP1fZ4
60 beetle
78 bus

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wcfvw69
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Re: squirrelly at 65 mph

Post by wcfvw69 » Mon May 16, 2016 6:09 am

From what I see of the steering damper, it looks fine. If they get bent, you'll find a "catch" somewhere in it's travel in/out. If you've ruled out the center pin as a cause and it still binds up somewhere with the steering gear un-hooked from the tie rods, I'd unhook the tie rod assemblies from both sides. Take the assemblies to the bench and put the nut on each tie rod stud. Now, put a wrench on the nut and try to spin the tie rod studs. This should help you isolate which tie rod is frozen or very stiff.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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zabo
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Re: squirrelly at 65 mph

Post by zabo » Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:31 am

Just wanted to bring some closure to this thread-
I ended up replacing a suspect tie rod end which seemed to help a bit, but the shimmy was still there.
Before we left for our thanksgiving trip I took it to Mobley Tire here in decatur.
They are one of the only shops left here that will still do alignments on old vw's.
They did a 4 wheel alignment and I asked them to recheck the wheel balance.
When i got it back it seemed like all the weights they added where placed 180º from where the original installer had put them.

It handled great the whole trip -I didn't push too hard- we were on backroads the majority of the time with speed limits of 55 -65, I hit 70 on a few of the larger roads and it still handled well.
60 beetle
78 bus

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Amskeptic
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Re: squirrelly at 65 mph

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:16 am

zabo wrote:Just wanted to bring some closure to this thread-
I ended up replacing a suspect tie rod end which seemed to help a bit, but the shimmy was still there.
Before we left for our thanksgiving trip I took it to Mobley Tire here in decatur.
They are one of the only shops left here that will still do alignments on old vw's.
They did a 4 wheel alignment and I asked them to recheck the wheel balance.
When i got it back it seemed like all the weights they added where placed 180º from where the original installer had put them.

It handled great the whole trip -I didn't push too hard- we were on backroads the majority of the time with speed limits of 55 -65, I hit 70 on a few of the larger roads and it still handled well.
Does this mean that the resistance to turning was all caused by a seized up tie rod joint?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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zabo
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Re: squirrelly at 65 mph

Post by zabo » Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:15 am

Amskeptic wrote: Does this mean that the resistance to turning was all caused by a seized up tie rod joint?
Colin

the tie rod joint seemed to lessen the resistance but it still felt to be more than normal.
Not having another bus to compare it to makes it hard to tell.

Hopefully we can check it out on your next lap.
60 beetle
78 bus

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