77 VW BUS Fuel Injected

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markannenorton
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77 VW BUS Fuel Injected

Post by markannenorton » Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:52 am

Having trouble with completely rebuilt fuel injected motor. Engine was running when I took it out to be rebuilt. It turns over, but seems like it has rich fuel conditions with black smoke coming out of the exhaust. It won't start. These are the things I have checked:
-gas tank clean
-new fuel filter
-working fuel pump
-35psi fuel pressure
-all new fuel hoses
-injectors cleaned, not leaking. Tested injectors outside of intake manifold to test spray with ignition on and starter activated. Looks like they all spray at same time instead of firing order
-new ignition system, with spark
-ignition timing set properly
-Cold start valve sprays gas when cranking the motor. Checked thermo time switch, and seemed to be okay. Unplugged cold start valve so it would not spray into intake.
What else can I do? What am I missing?

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Bleyseng
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Re: 77 VW BUS Fuel Injected

Post by Bleyseng » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:45 pm

Check the CHT as a rich startup condition can be it's bad. Check the ohms on it cold and hot as it should be about 2700 cold
Geoff
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Amskeptic
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Re: 77 VW BUS Fuel Injected

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:44 pm

markannenorton wrote:Having trouble with completely rebuilt fuel injected motor.
-Cold start valve sprays gas when cranking the motor. Unplugged cold start valve so it would not spray into intake.
What else can I do? What am I missing?
You are on the right track. A new engine has a lot of friction. Here's what you do:
Make sure battery is charged.
Remove and clean all plugs with carb spray, dry thoroughly, reinstall with light oil on thread only.
Attempt a normal cold start with fresh battery and accelerator halfway to the floor. If it starts coughing, get the accelerator all the way to the floor until it is just about running and release to just feathering it when the engine catches, do not allow overrev!

If it does not start:
Charge battery while removing the plugs again.
ARE THEY WET WITH GASOLINE? If so, clean and dry again.
Attempt a normal start with half accelerator, this time with cold start valve unplugged.

If the intake plenum gets all liquid-laden, it will short the plugs over and over.
Remove brake booster wye from left rear of intake plenum, remove s-boot, open throttle plate and blast with compressed air and see if your palm gets wet in front of the nipple where the air is blasting out.

Make sure plugs are clean and dry before each start. Carb spray seems to do best at evaporating fuel out from plug firing end.

Good luck and give us a specific rundown of what you did and what the engine did.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 116,898 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 84,465 miles

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energyturtle
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Re: 77 VW BUS Fuel Injected

Post by energyturtle » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:03 am

Valve adjustment......

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Amskeptic
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Re: 77 VW BUS Fuel Injected

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:39 pm

energyturtle wrote:Valve adjustment......
Interesting point if they are hydraulics. Are there hydraulic lifters in that thar engine?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 116,898 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 84,465 miles

markannenorton
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Re: 77 VW BUS Fuel Injected

Post by markannenorton » Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:33 pm

Valves are adjusted/solid lifters. Brand new battery, and new CHT. This afternoon after motor sat for 24 hours, I cranked motor, and rotated distributor counter clockwise . Motor seemed to want to start. Some popping and sputtering. Rotated distributor til number four cylinder on distributor was where number one cylinder would be on the timing marks should be. Engine runs, but poorly, and in extremely rich condition, with throttle held wide open. Put timing light on while running, and cannot see timing mark at all. Rotated distributor back to where it is supposed to be to see if timing marks line up. That's it for tonight. Thanks for advice.

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Amskeptic
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Re: 77 VW BUS Fuel Injected

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:08 am

markannenorton wrote:Valves are adjusted/solid lifters. Brand new battery, and new CHT. This afternoon after motor sat for 24 hours, I cranked motor, and rotated distributor counter clockwise . Motor seemed to want to start. Some popping and sputtering. Rotated distributor til number four cylinder on distributor was where number one cylinder would be on the timing marks should be. Engine runs, but poorly, and in extremely rich condition, with throttle held wide open. Put timing light on while running, and cannot see timing mark at all. Rotated distributor back to where it is supposed to be to see if timing marks line up. That's it for tonight. Thanks for advice.
We have a warning . . . you *can* make an engine run better by advancing timing and all, but you can also get lost in the forest and get eaten by the Grenade Monster.

Numerous innocents have discovered that the engine will idle better, have better power, and blow up on the road, a silent death of unrecognized preignition and melted pistons. You really are not allowed to play with the timing. It is a hard-engineered specification.

If engine wont run, set timing statically.
Rotate the crankshaft to #1 TDC.
(make sure that #1 has two clicky rocker arms if necessary to verify that it is not #3 at TDC)
Get your simple 12 volt test light out and put the alligator clip on (-) #1 of the ignition coil.
Turn on ignition and ground the point of the test lamp.
If test lamp is on, rotate distributor clockwise until it goes out.
Rotate distributor counterclockwise until light goes on.
Verify timing by rotating crankshaft counter-clockwise until light goes out, then rotating clockwise until light goes on.
Anywhere between 7.5 BTDC and 0 is fine for starting purposes. Tighten distributor clamp lightly.

Once engine runs, adjust timing to 28* @ 3,400 rpm (with no vacuum hoses hooked up to distributor advance if so equipped). Period.
If engine continues to run poorly, you have other issues, and I will travel to your house and straighten you out if you keep this UP.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 116,898 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 84,465 miles

cegammel
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Re: 77 VW BUS Fuel Injected

Post by cegammel » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:48 am

Just a quick note on your timing:

When I reassembled my Vanagon engine, I managed to unwittingly drop the distributor drive gear in two teeth off...I had very similar symptoms. A friend who plays with Mopar stuff located the problem by switching the wires around the distributor cap until we got it to run.

You may want someone to take a picture of exactly where the groove in the distributor lines up when the #1 is at TDC just to make sure.

It was a very easy mistake to make, and one that I checked, rechecked, and rechecked, convinced myself it was right, but just kept gnawing...

markannenorton
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Re: 77 VW BUS Fuel Injected

Post by markannenorton » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:15 pm

I'am back . top dead center on number one piston both vavle rocker arms should be loose? well the only way I can get that to happen is to go past top dead center.The timing mark on the pulley ends up being between 1/4 and 1/2 way around. then i get two loose rocker arms. I think the cam got put wrong. what do you think? thanks Mark p.s. some times it takes awhile to get back and to what you all said.

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energyturtle
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Re: 77 VW BUS Fuel Injected

Post by energyturtle » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:02 pm

Damn. That sure does sound like the problem. To my knowledge there is no cure for that mistake, other than splitting the case to fix it. The camshaft rotates twice for every 1 turn of the crank. Are u sure your on the compression stroke for #1 at TDC? Distributor drive gear sorted out to verify? I hope your just overlooking something, because an improperly indexed crank and cam gear is unfixable without splitting the case and starting over. Did u build it or out source the project? I hope out source so you can reclaim funds, and warranty work. Good luck bus brother.

markannenorton
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Re: 77 VW BUS Fuel Injected

Post by markannenorton » Sat May 02, 2015 9:31 am

hi all got my timing problem worked out it was me .not right timing mark 180 out . now the only way i can get to run if open accelerator. runs like crap, rich won't stay running. so pulled off brake booster hose. it will run if i put finger over hole and let air in to it .got to keep RPMs down. going to check the air cleaner flap i'll be back thanks mark

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hercdriver
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Re: 77 VW BUS Fuel Injected

Post by hercdriver » Sat May 02, 2015 4:52 pm

Maybe focus on the ignition for now. Are your spark plug wires set up correctly? You said you have a new ignition. Maybe try a different set of points. Good coil?
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markannenorton
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Re: 77 VW BUS Fuel Injected

Post by markannenorton » Sun May 03, 2015 8:26 am

Have new Flame Thrower coil to match new ignition. Could I possibly have fuel injected wires going to wrong injectors? I numbered them and put them where I thought they all went by looking at the wiring harness. Could I have numbered them all wrong? Could I have 1 and 2 backwards, and/or 3 and 4 backwards? If they are right, and I change them just to check, will it mess up anything? Anybody in NC want to come hold my hand????

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SlowLane
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Re: 77 VW BUS Fuel Injected

Post by SlowLane » Sun May 03, 2015 9:22 am

L-jet is a batch-fire system. All four of the injectors are actuated simultaneously. so getting the injector wires mixed up should have no effect.
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Amskeptic
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Re: 77 VW BUS Fuel Injected

Post by Amskeptic » Mon May 04, 2015 12:51 pm

markannenorton wrote:hi all got my timing problem worked out it was me .not right timing mark 180 out . now the only way i can get to run if open accelerator. runs like crap, rich won't stay running. so pulled off brake booster hose. it will run if i put finger over hole and let air in to it .got to keep RPMs down. going to check the air cleaner flap i'll be back thanks mark
I am thinking your timing is still botched. Humor me, and yourself. I do not trust your marks or your pulley.

Follow these directions explicitly:

A) Rotate engine to the exact moment that you see NUMBER THREE's intake valve opening WHILE exhaust valve is closing. Catch the exact midpoint where both valves are equi-opened as they pass each other. This should be about 4-8* after the TDC notch in pulley passes to the right at the "0" on the scale. Is your notch in the vicinity when you do this? If not, where is it?

If the engine won't run correctly without some gargantuan air leak to help lean it out, find the source of the richness. What color are the injector plastics? They should be blue or green.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 116,898 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 84,465 miles

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