Photo-shoppe?

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hambone
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Photo-shoppe?

Post by hambone » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:14 pm

Those of you that use it, do you bother to save the pre-edited originals? I have been but am wondering if it's worth the effort. I am an archiving guy, once lost it's lost. :salute:
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sped372
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Re: Photo-shoppe?

Post by sped372 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:54 pm

Depends on what I'm doing. I used to save a new copy of every image with an 'a' on the end for the edited version, but I've quit doing that because I never found myself going back to the original even years later. If I'm just adjusting levels, contrast, or color balance a bit I'll just overwrite the original now. Major changes and I'll keep the original in case I need to go back.
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hambone
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Re: Photo-shoppe?

Post by hambone » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:16 pm

That's all I really use it for. Thanks!
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glasseye
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Re: Photo-shoppe?

Post by glasseye » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:14 pm

I save the original files. I've gone back to old originals from several cameras ago and re-processed the files with newer versions of Photoshop (and now, Lightroom) and have improved the results substantially. YMMV.

That said, I don't save all the originals. Obvious dogs I delete right away.

Obvious cats, though, never get deleted. :drunken:

Sorry.
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hambone
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Re: Photo-shoppe?

Post by hambone » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:19 pm

Does it make sense to save the edited image at the same size (bytes) as the original, or does it help at all to save it as a larger file?
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glasseye
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Re: Photo-shoppe?

Post by glasseye » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:42 pm

hambone wrote:Does it make sense to save the edited image at the same size (bytes) as the original, or does it help at all to save it as a larger file?
Edited files from Photoshop can have more bytes on disk but the same number of pixels as the original because you have the option so save the edited file uncompressed. Camera images (JPG) are heavily compressed in the camera. Photoshop decompresses these for ease of editing. When you save a PSD or a TIFF from Photoshop, the file will be bigger on disk (more bytes) because it's no longer compressed.

Successive cycles of decompressing, saving as compressed, and decompressing again can result in damage to image quality. If you wish to retain maximum quality when saving, choose the larger, non-compressed formats PSD or TIFF as your saved image format.

So, if I understood the original question:

Yes. :king:
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tristessa
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Re: Photo-shoppe?

Post by tristessa » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:44 pm

Save everything. You never know when you're gonna want it, or what you're gonna want.
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Amskeptic
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Re: Photo-shoppe?

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:19 am

glasseye wrote: Successive cycles of decompressing, saving as compressed, and decompressing again can result in damage to image quality. If you wish to retain maximum quality when saving, choose the larger, non-compressed formats PSD or TIFF as your saved image format.
How many tiff open/edit/saves can you do before you degrade? . . . before your image degrades?
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jonyem
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Re: Photoshop?

Post by jonyem » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:07 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
glasseye wrote: Successive cycles of decompressing, saving as compressed, and decompressing again can result in damage to image quality. If you wish to retain maximum quality when saving, choose the larger, non-compressed formats PSD or TIFF as your saved image format.
How many tiff open/edit/saves can you do before you degrade? . . . before your image degrades?
ColinForWantOfRePhrase
To my knowledge, TIFFs and PSDs don't degrade in the open/save/edit/save process. Not sure what it is about the compression involved in creating a JPEG that causes degradation.

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tristessa
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Re: Photoshop?

Post by tristessa » Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:24 pm

jonyem wrote:Not sure what it is about the compression involved in creating a JPEG that causes degradation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossy_comp ... s_lossless
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Amskeptic
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Re: Photoshop?

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:52 am

tristessa wrote:
jonyem wrote:Not sure what it is about the compression involved in creating a JPEG that causes degradation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossy_comp ... s_lossless
My image files, when saved as JPGs, would choke up with orphan pixels that destroyed hours and hours of clean-up in an instant. Any time I had to do an edit or spelling correction, the images would all get fuzzy. Now I have to do some more editing with my saved tiff files. I praaaaay that the image quality remains intact.
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BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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glasseye
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Re: Photo-shoppe?

Post by glasseye » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:20 am

JPG compression degradation happens only after several successive save/open/save cycles. Once it appears, however, it progresses very rapidly. Like rust.

If you save at the highest JPG quality, you should be fine. You can also beat the degradation problem by using the "Save As" function and saving an edited image with a new file name. That way, the original image remains intact.

It's always amused me that Photoshop can save anywhere between Quality 12 (max quality) and Quality 0 (absolutely no quality whatsoever)
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Amskeptic
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Re: Photo-shoppe?

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:29 pm

glasseye wrote:You can also beat the degradation problem by using the "Save As" function and saving an edited image with a new file name. That way, the original image remains intact.
Can't save original image. The whole reason for editing is that I am one step closer to final Book Save. I clean up images and orphan pixels and change wording as necessary, and THAT is the image/text I need to save. So . . . what sort of degradation am I finding with TIFF files? Well, glad you asked, I am losing edges, color integrity (there is bleed!?!) and somehow, black is not saved black after a couple of full quality saves. I *am* experimenting with saving these works-in-progress illustration/text in paint.net proprietary format. I get easily confused and overwhelmed.
Colzheimer
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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glasseye
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Re: Photo-shoppe?

Post by glasseye » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:18 pm

Amskeptic wrote: Can't save original image.
Why not?
. what sort of degradation am I finding with TIFF files?
You shouldn't see any degradation with TIFFs, no matter how many times you open and close them. They may use lossless compression (selectable on save) but there should be no generation loss. I have no idea why your blacks seem to be going grey nor why the image geometry is changing. Can you call up two generations on the screen together to compare apples to apples?
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Paul Wolfowitz, speaking of Iraq.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Photo-shoppe?

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:29 am

glasseye wrote:
Amskeptic wrote: Can't save original image.
Why not?

Well, I can, but why would I want to? Once I have cleaned it up and pasted it, it has evolved to where I want it. I do not know what sort of disaster could occur that would make me have to go back to the original scan and work my way through ten hours of editing.
glasseye wrote: You shouldn't see any degradation with TIFFs, no matter how many times you open and close them. They may use lossless compression (selectable on save) but there should be no generation loss. I have no idea why your blacks seem to be going grey nor why the image geometry is changing. Can you call up two generations on the screen together to compare apples to apples?
I may be able to give you an example, once i am set up. Please note that in your type of photography, you rarely happen across black/white boundaries known as "really fine lines next to each other on a white background". When you zoom in, you can see those damn orphans start developing . . .
ColinPixelOrphanage
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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