Bus Engine Removal Questions

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hiwaycallin
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Bus Engine Removal Questions

Post by hiwaycallin » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:49 pm

I'm gearing up for my first ever engine removal from my bus ('78 Westfalia). I have done a lot of reading on the topic including the 20-step Ratwell method, but I still have a few lingering questions about some of the details. My first one is very simple and has to do with jacking.

Is it better/easier for removal to keep the bus level until the engine is "dropped", or does it matter? In Ratwell's description it sounds like he leaves the bus level on the ground until after the engine is disconnected and lowered onto a dolly. Then he jacks up the rear (from both sides) high enough to slide the engine out the back.

In order to create more working room underneath, I was thinking of driving the front of the bus onto car ramps, which would raise the front end about 8", and then jacking the rear to the same level and supporting the rear axle on jack stands. This way the bus would be level, and give plenty of working room underneath. Then when the engine is eventually lowered to the ground onto an ATV jack, I should be able to just slide it out the back. To reiterate, is there any advantage to keeping the bus level while disconnecting it from the transmission?

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Randy in Maine
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Post by Randy in Maine » Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:04 pm

Suggestion:

Raise the rear of the bus about 6" by putting your big meat jack stands under the rear torsion beam. Put something in front of the front wheels like a wheel chock, but it won't go anywhere. The tough part of the removal is getting the engine under the rear apron.

Then you can wiggle under there to drain the fuel, and unhook stuff with a bit more room.

Personally I like to have a towel or hunk of cardboard under there.
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Post by vdubyah73 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:47 pm

Your atv jack prolly won't reach high enough. My method, jack up rear end for room to work. Lower rear end to lower engine on jack. Jack rear end back up to clear apron and roll the engine out from underneath. I like an atv jack for dropping an engine, but prefer a floor jack for installation. Hard to wiggle an engine, sitting on a platform, while trying to align things for the initial slide home. I also generally do this alone, instead of waiting for a buddy to have free time.
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Vdubtech
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Re: Bus Engine Removal Questions

Post by Vdubtech » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:01 am

hiwaycallin wrote: To reiterate, is there any advantage to keeping the bus level while disconnecting it from the transmission?
You'll be far better off pulling the engine and tranny as a unit. Much, much easier R+R doing it this way.

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Sylvester
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Re: Bus Engine Removal Questions

Post by Sylvester » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:08 am

Vdubtech wrote:
hiwaycallin wrote: To reiterate, is there any advantage to keeping the bus level while disconnecting it from the transmission?
You'll be far better off pulling the engine and tranny as a unit. Much, much easier R+R doing it this way.

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Listen to VDub, he's done engine removals underwater.
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Re: Bus Engine Removal Questions

Post by vwlover77 » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:09 am

Sylvester wrote:
Vdubtech wrote:
hiwaycallin wrote: To reiterate, is there any advantage to keeping the bus level while disconnecting it from the transmission?
You'll be far better off pulling the engine and tranny as a unit. Much, much easier R+R doing it this way.
Listen to VDub, he's done engine removals underwater.
I'll second (or is it third) that! Much easier, especially when it comes time to line up the transmission and engine to be mated again.

Don't raise the front end. You'll get more clearance to pull the engine under the apron with the front wheels on the ground.

I jack mine up at the very beginning with floor jacks placed under the spring plate stops on either side, and don't lower it again until everything is back in again.

take your time and follow the Ratwell guide. It's pretty easy!

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hiwaycallin
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Post by hiwaycallin » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:41 am

Thank you all for the excellent information and tips. If I remove the engine and transmission as a unit, as suggested, do I then re-install them as a unit as well?

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Post by gmag69 » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:46 am

hiwaycallin wrote:Thank you all for the excellent information and tips. If I remove the engine and transmission as a unit, as suggested, do I then re-install them as a unit as well?
Yes. Mate them back together out of the bus and then stick them back in like that.
Check out my Westy Resto thread. viewtopic.php?t=2063
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Post by Ritter » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:19 pm

What do you do with the CV joints when you pull the engine/trans as a unit? I've not tackled them yet so don't know their inner workings and visions of bearings popping out and rolling down the dirty gutter ruin my sleep sometimes.... :blackeye:
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spiffy
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Post by spiffy » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:27 pm

just take em off, clean em, replace boots if necssary.
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Post by airkooledchris » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:43 pm

you can also wire the CV's up and out of the way, so they don't hang way down.
put some baggies over the exposed ends after you disconnect them from the trans so you don't get any crud inside, then wire them up as far as you can and out of the way of the trans when you lower it.
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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:58 pm

Ritter wrote:What do you do with the CV joints when you pull the engine/trans as a unit? I've not tackled them yet so don't know their inner workings and visions of bearings popping out and rolling down the dirty gutter ruin my sleep sometimes.... :blackeye:
If the boot caps are firmly pressed onto the CV joints, then they won't articulate to the point that the balls fall out. If the caps come free of the CV joints, then there is a risk of them disassembling themselves.

If you remove the engine and transaxle as a unit, please clean the heck out of the CV joint/transaxle/boot area before any disassembly, and get them well protected with plastic bags/zipties before you tie them up out of the way. The flanges may be all gooped with grease after you have removed the CV joints, they will need to be spotlessly clean,and you might as well do it now so you don't have grease smearing on everything as you disassemble. I personally think it is a PIA to remove the whole mess at once. It is not difficult at all to remove the two 15mm bolts holding the transaxle to the bell housing carrier, drop the transaxle and engine 6" onto a milkcrate, or cinderblock, or bottle jack, then remove the engine under the apron, no fuss, no muss, and a lighter load on the jack besides.
Colin
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Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
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Post by vdubyah73 » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:16 pm

Amskeptic wrote: I personally think it is a PIA to remove the whole mess at once. It is not difficult at all to remove the two 15mm bolts holding the transaxle to the bell housing carrier, drop the transaxle and engine 6" onto a milkcrate, or cinderblock, or bottle jack, then remove the engine under the apron, no fuss, no muss, and a lighter load on the jack besides.
Colin
That's how I do it to. Usually without any help.
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hiwaycallin
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Post by hiwaycallin » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:52 am

Amskeptic wrote: I personally think it is a PIA to remove the whole mess at once. It is not difficult at all to remove the two 15mm bolts holding the transaxle to the bell housing carrier, drop the transaxle and engine 6" onto a milkcrate, or cinderblock, or bottle jack, then remove the engine under the apron, no fuss, no muss, and a lighter load on the jack besides.
Colin
For my first time at least, I'm kind of leaning towards this "engine only" approach. Definitely two camps on this issue though. I kind of like the idea of "disturbing" as little as possible this time time around. I've still got at least a month or so to think about it as I wait for the snow to melt ...

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Vdubtech
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Post by Vdubtech » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:04 am

hiwaycallin wrote:
Amskeptic wrote: I personally think it is a PIA to remove the whole mess at once. It is not difficult at all to remove the two 15mm bolts holding the transaxle to the bell housing carrier, drop the transaxle and engine 6" onto a milkcrate, or cinderblock, or bottle jack, then remove the engine under the apron, no fuss, no muss, and a lighter load on the jack besides.
Colin
For my first time at least, I'm kind of leaning towards this "engine only" approach. Definitely two camps on this issue though. I kind of like the idea of "disturbing" as little as possible this time time around. I've still got at least a month or so to think about it as I wait for the snow to melt ...
My first one I did engine only also. The first, and last time I have ever or will ever do it that way. You'll figure it out.

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