Distributor fitment woes.

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mechanicjay
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Distributor fitment woes.

Post by mechanicjay » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:48 am

I'm about going crazy, or dizzy, if you will on trying to fit a new distributor.

I'm converting my '73 bus from dual aftermarket carbs, to the stock setup. All pieces are in place, but the distributor. As we know, we need a dual-can distributor to work with the stock dual-carb setup. My bus came with a single advance can only.

So, I ordered the correct rebuild carb from Bus Depot (Big mistake, save yourself $40 and order it from Advance Auto Parts). Regardless, I can't get the new thing to slot in the right way. I have clearence issues in all directions.

The only way it fits, seems to be with the Vacuum can hanging it out over the oil pressure switch, but then I get interference that way against the wire and connector there. How do you folks orient this thing so that it fits?

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satchmo
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Re: Distributor fitment woes.

Post by satchmo » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:50 pm

Did the single vacuum can fit okay? Is there a reason you cannot put the dual vacuum can on the distributor you already had?

I don't recall having any trouble with my 73 bus and the stock distributor. There wasn't a lot of room for timing/rotational adjustment, but there didn't need to be.

Maybe post a picture of your current set up and we can make suggestions.

Satchmo
By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius

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mechanicjay
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Re: Distributor fitment woes.

Post by mechanicjay » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:00 pm

The distributor bodies are the same, the dual can is just much bigger than the single can. Also, seems a freshly rebuilt unit is better than one of unknown provenience?

Maybe I should just drop it in however it fits and worry less.

I do feel like I need to reposition the condenser at it hangs kinda low (in comparison to the old one) which isn't helping things.

My final beef with the new distributor can, is apparently when they rebuild them, the position of the advance nipple is of no concern. Rather than having one pointing strait up as when new, the rebuilt can's advance nipple points to 7 o'clock, giving me even less room to work with on that bottom/back side. Bus depot is happy to exchange it if I pay shipping, claiming that in 20 years of selling these, no one has ever complained about vacuum nipple placement.

Sorry, I'm just kind of annoyed. I pulled the new one out of the box and thought it would just be a quick drop in....

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mechanicjay
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Re: Distributor fitment woes.

Post by mechanicjay » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:08 pm

Okay,
I went to install it again tonight it all just dropped in...

Sorry for the noise!

--Jason

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asiab3
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Re: Distributor fitment woes.

Post by asiab3 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:32 pm

If the Bus Depot rebuilt distributor is a Cardone rebuild, you'll have bigger problems than nipple alignment soon enough…

Luckily, the condensor can be mounted in a few spots, depending on where you need it. Most commonly it sits on the side of the vacuum advance mounting, but it can also be mounted under one of the cap clip screws. Check all the screws for vacuum cans and clips. One will be longer than the rest; that's the one for holding the condenser.

The overall orientation of any distributor will also depend on the installation of the distributor drive gear. Bentley has a nice description and illustration, Engine and Clutch, 8.1.

Good luck!
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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tommu
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Re: Distributor fitment woes.

Post by tommu » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:27 pm

I do not understand why they continue to sell that crap. I returned mine twice. They were both totally worn out and utterly unusable. I’ve stopped buying from Busdepot because of this.

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mechanicjay
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Re: Distributor fitment woes.

Post by mechanicjay » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:55 am

...encouraging words everyone.

I mean obviously the rebuild is done without care, as I had to reposition the condenser and the remount the vacuum can so it wasn't hanging off at an odd angle.

Would I actually be better off moving the new dual can over to my old distributor? Perhaps I'll return a different crap distributor as my core and keep the one I know at least works marginally well?

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satchmo
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Re: Distributor fitment woes.

Post by satchmo » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:12 am

What, besides the single advance vacuum can, was wrong with your old distributor?

If the advance curve is similar to stock, you might consider cleaning and rebuilding it yourself, then using your new dual vacuum can on it.

Check out the info on these sites:

http://www.type2.com/~keen/ignition.html

https://www.vwnos.com/distributor

Satchmo
By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius

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mechanicjay
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Re: Distributor fitment woes.

Post by mechanicjay » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:24 am

As far as I can tell, nothing is wrong with it. Mech advance works, the plate that that vac can attaches to moves freely, etc. I only put 30 miles on it, before I ripped the leaking and horrible aftermarket carb system off and started converting it back to stock.

The two old distributors I have are part numbers:
043 905 205 -- Which is an the SVDA disributor that came on the bus. Aside from being dirty, it seems serviceable.
021 905 205 E -- Which is pretty trashed overall, I'll probably end up returning this as my core.

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satchmo
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Re: Distributor fitment woes.

Post by satchmo » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:45 am

Well, here are the specs on the stock distributors for the 73 bus with dual carbs. I think you can look up the specs for the 043 905 205 and decide if it's advance curve is close enough to stock to make it usable with the dual vacuum can you have.

Bus & Pickup 1973 * 1700 Manual Trans

Distributor: VW 021-905-205J, Bosch 0231 173 009 or 010 > 021-905-205N, 0231 181 005
Can Use: VW 021-905-205N, Bosch 0231 181 005
Points: 01 011
Condensor: 02 054
Rotor: 04 033
Note: Originally equipped with Speed Limiting Rotor 04 016 (5400rpm)
Cap: 03 010
Coil: 00 015 (Blue Coil: 00 012)
Vacuum Can: 07 113
Ignition Wires: 09 171
Spark Plug: W8CC
Timing Set At:: 10deg ATDC @ 800-950rpm w/strobe, vacuum hose(s) connected
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 7-12deg Adv, 16-18deg Ret; Centrifugal: 9-14deg @ 2000rpm, 21-25deg @ 3400 rpm

Bus 1973 * 1700 Auto Trans

Distributor: VW 021-905-205F, Bosch 0231 173 007 > 021-905-205Q, 0231 173 008
Can Use:
Points: 01 011
Condensor: 02 054
Rotor: 04 033
Note: Originally equipped with Speed Limiting Rotor 04 016 (5400rpm)
Cap: 03 010
Coil: 00 015 (Blue Coil 00 012)
Vacuum Can: 07 101
Ignition Wires: 09 171
Spark Plug: W8CC
Timing Set At:: 5deg ATDC @ 800-950rpm w/strobe, vacuum hose(s) connected
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 8-12deg Adv, 11-14deg Ret; Centrifugal: 14deg @ 1700 rpm, 15-19deg @ 2400 rpm, 21-25deg @ 3400rpm

Satchmo
By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius

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asiab3
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Re: Distributor fitment woes.

Post by asiab3 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:47 am

There is no law that says you have to return a core ;)

If having the old distributors is worth it to you, keep them both! Or place a classified ad to trade your SVDA for a spare DVDA.

Thanks for the specs Satchmo, I couldn’t find them on Old Volks Home anymore... where’d ya get them?
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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mechanicjay
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Re: Distributor fitment woes.

Post by mechanicjay » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:50 am

asiab3 wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:47 am
There is no law that says you have to return a core ;)
Yes, but I want my $65 back.

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asiab3
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Re: Distributor fitment woes.

Post by asiab3 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:54 am

Understandable. Cores go for around $5-$20 at swap meets, so send the worst one back!

BusDepot sold my client Carsdone rebuilt brake calipers with pre-stripped bleeder screws. Silence from their email department. I’m growing tired of playing fair.
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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satchmo
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Re: Distributor fitment woes.

Post by satchmo » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:58 am

asiab3 wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:47 am
There is no law that says you have to return a core ;)

If having the old distributors is worth it to you, keep them both! Or place a classified ad to trade your SVDA for a spare DVDA.

Thanks for the specs Satchmo, I couldn’t find them on Old Volks Home anymore... where’d ya get them?
Robbie
http://www.type2.com/~keen/ignition.html
By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius

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mechanicjay
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Re: Distributor fitment woes.

Post by mechanicjay » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:26 am

Hm...Okay,

Actually, maybe I'll just send the rebuilt body with the bad vacuum can back as my core :) It sounds like there's no actual telling what the curve of the rebuild unit is unless I test it, also that it might not be worth my time?

As far as the curves go, these look pretty darn close to me.
The ones I have:
205E ('72 Bus): 13-16 @ 2000, 23-26 @3600
043 205: 7-12 @1600, 20-25 @3800

The stock ones:
205N ('73 Bus): 9-14@2000, 21-25 @3400
205J ('74 Bus): 9-14 @1600, 21-25 @3400

I guess it's notable that the 043 - 205 takes a little longer to hit max advance and come on a little sooner (like the '74) over the '73. I don't understand enough about ignition curves to understand the real world implications of these differences -- or even if a degree or three spread over a couple hundred RPM is even going to matter.

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