Wdollie6 Bus Thread

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wdollie6
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Wdollie6 Bus Thread

Post by wdollie6 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:55 pm

Turns out that the high rpms between shifts was more related to the accelerator cable connector than anything else. After finding some NOS springs for the carbs I still had the problem of high idle between gears so started looking at the cable, appears that I had two issues, first I didn't have any slack and secondly the 'C' clip that keeps the connector in place was way to large (I put on a temporary 'E' clip when I first installed the engine), interfering to the point that it would not allow a full return to idle. I went to ACE found a true 'C' clip that fit and an appropriate washer, solved that problem. Oh, a little grease on the body of the connector didn't hurt either.

The only problem I have now is that I have no idle on chokes at all, once it is warmed up it idles fine, albeit at a lower rpm. I will run through the cold choke adjustments tonight. Yes Colin I still need to check my left carb float level, haven't forgot, just haven't got to it yet, hopefully this weekend. The good news is I am putting miles on the bus, just struggle keeping it idling when its cold.
1972 Superbeetle Convertible
1972 Westy Bus
1972 Beetle
1970 Fastback
1966 6V Beetle with Sunroof

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From New York

Post by sgkent » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:30 pm

https://www.paruzzi.com/vwcp/021129881B

also contact Ken Madsen at TheBusco. He may have some used ones. Instead of a hardware store I would be looking at NAPA for carb return springs.
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From New York

Post by wdollie6 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:57 am

All set on the carb return springs now just need to fix my idle on choke and get it up to 950rpm on the idle circuit, currently still chugging along at 800 rpm, can't raise it with adjustment to the circuit which is why Colin believes the float level is off on the left carb.

Thanks for the reply.
1972 Superbeetle Convertible
1972 Westy Bus
1972 Beetle
1970 Fastback
1966 6V Beetle with Sunroof

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From New York

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:26 am

wdollie6 wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:57 am
All set on the carb return springs now just need to fix my idle on choke and get it up to 950rpm on the idle circuit, currently still chugging along at 800 rpm, can't raise it with adjustment to the circuit which is why Colin believes the float level is off on the left carb.

Thanks for the reply.

You do need to distinguish between an idle circuit that cannot get above 800 rpm because of
a) inadequate fuel
and
b) inadequate air

As I remember it, we had plenty of air but the mixture screw could not offer enough fuel to utilize that air. So we thought the float level might help increase fuel delivery. We discussed at some point that the emulsion tube had to be clean and secure (were you the one with a prior cracked emulsion tube?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From New York

Post by wdollie6 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:38 am

Colin, you are correct, inadequate fuel appears to be the issue as we maxed out the adjustment on the mixture screw with no improvement. You have a great memory, the crack in the emulsion tube was fixed by replacing with a good one from another set of dual carbs I purchased, this should no longer be an issue (this was prior to your visit last year). When I made the swap I ensured that it was clean and free of debris, unless it picked something up after install.

I will hopefully have some time tonight to validate float levels and while I am in there recheck the tube. This should be done after idling the engine to ensure fuel chamber is full, correct, or can I just turn it over a few times?

Wayne
1972 Superbeetle Convertible
1972 Westy Bus
1972 Beetle
1970 Fastback
1966 6V Beetle with Sunroof

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From New York

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:45 am

wdollie6 wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:38 am
Colin, you are correct, inadequate fuel appears to be the issue as we maxed out the adjustment on the mixture screw with no improvement. You have a great memory, the crack in the emulsion tube was fixed by replacing with a good one from another set of dual carbs I purchased, this should no longer be an issue (this was prior to your visit last year). When I made the swap I ensured that it was clean and free of debris, unless it picked something up after install.

I will hopefully have some time tonight to validate float levels and while I am in there recheck the tube. This should be done after idling the engine to ensure fuel chamber is full, correct, or can I just turn it over a few times?

Wayne

Wayne
Run it for a few minutes at idle on a cool engine so it doesn't evaporate in the time it takes to remove the carb cover.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From New York

Post by wdollie6 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:55 am

Finally had time to do some early Saturday morning work on Fat Boy over the weekend, decided to first fix the cold start idling issue before moving on to the potential left carb float issue. I removed the pie pieces from the carbs the green wire from the coil and turned the ignition on, quickly found a serious problem. The right choke wasn't working at all, nothing, was warm to the touch, identical to left, temp. wise, but did not move the butterfly. I removed the cover to find that the choke winding had completely ovaled out, wtf, strange looking at best, begged the question as to how long it had been like this :scratch: (more importantly if it had been like that what were the impacts on the adjustments Colin and I had done on his visit). After ensuring that everything moved freely without the choke element installed I borrowed a used (unknown condition) one from a backup carb., cleaned it up installed and the old choke element worked perfectly. I synchronized them per Colin's procedure and then hooked everything back up, pressed the accelerator a couple of times and started the bus which caught quickly but unfortunately quickly faded and stalled. By simply turning the key it immediately restarted, but unfortunately did the same thing faded out and died. I ran out of time and was unable to complete the adjustment on the fast idle linkage but plan on getting to that this week. Fat Boy had to do some work delivering presents for a one year olds birthday party.

On a chilly 42 deg F early Sunday morning decided to see if the right carb failed choke had any impact on ability to idle after warmup, i.e. no chokes. Surprisingly after warming up and adjusting the idle circuit mixture screw I was able to increase the idle from 800 rpm to a more able to recover 910-20 rpm, something we hadn't been able to do on Colin's visit. While I was doing this I validated that the timing was still correct (not sure why but since I already had everything hooked up..), it was exactly where Colin and I had set it on his visit, hoses off 28 deg. steady (40 with hoses on) and just below 8 deg at idle. On the test drive Fat Boy drove the best ever, and even idled at stops, no more over revving between shifts, no minor backfiring on slowing the car, down shifts. Even after being fully warm would start by just turning the key and immediately move to idle, wow.

I also fixed the stripped stud on the Bowden tube bracket by installing an insert, something I had never done before, worked great. Unfortunately didn't solve the chattering on first gear startup so crawled back under and added another washer which improved it significantly but didn't eliminate, I will add another next time I am underneath.

Colin, knowing that the right choke was potentially inoperative during your visit would it make sense to go back through the tune up procedure again with regards to carb adjustments. I think I know the answer but have to ask with ME trip less than two weeks away.
1972 Superbeetle Convertible
1972 Westy Bus
1972 Beetle
1970 Fastback
1966 6V Beetle with Sunroof

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From New York

Post by wdollie6 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:09 am

I should also mention that Colin had looked at the chokes and made the comment that the right one didn't appear to be correct as the terminal position was in a strange position. We attributed this to it potentially being an aftermarket piece and moved on as I assured him all was good with the chokes, little did I know (and apparently still don't...).
1972 Superbeetle Convertible
1972 Westy Bus
1972 Beetle
1970 Fastback
1966 6V Beetle with Sunroof

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From New York

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:33 am

wdollie6 wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:09 am
I should also mention that Colin had looked at the chokes and made the comment that the right one didn't appear to be correct as the terminal position was in a strange position. We attributed this to it potentially being an aftermarket piece and moved on as I assured him all was good with the chokes, little did I know (and apparently still don't...).


It sounds like you are prevailing past the tribulations into the nirvana. Good for you! These dual carb buses are beauties when all is working well, and yes I do miss the Road Warrior's dual carburetor days . . .
Colin

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BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From New York

Post by wdollie6 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:39 am

So last week while driving locally lost the great idle I had been enjoying and once again at every stop Fat Boy stalled. Finally Time to take the next step that Colin had suggested, check float level left carb.

After pulling the top off the left carb this morning, discovered that while the float level was right on (same as when Colin and I checked last year) the replacement pickup tube (for CIS) we had put in the carb last year now has a crack and the small nozzle was completely plugged. Couldn't suck or blow air through it until after a bath in carb cleaner. Grabbed the old one that I had repaired by soldering and set aside as a spare, verified that there were no leaks along the tube and reinstalled. Unfortunately will have to advise on outcome later today as family obligations are pulling me to other tasks.

Amazing that in less than a year this tube was completely plugged with a hard scaly substance, bad gas or just ethanol gas? :scratch: Also not sure how the crack came to be as I carefully checked it when I installed, this time actually knowing what I was looking for. Also careful to ensure at install that it didn't get banged around.

Will advise once I have a chance to re-tune, hopefully this afternoon.
1972 Superbeetle Convertible
1972 Westy Bus
1972 Beetle
1970 Fastback
1966 6V Beetle with Sunroof

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From New York

Post by sgkent » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:01 am

is the tube brass or plastic? If the bus is being used the only thing I can think of that is hard scaly is water in the gas. Try adding a dryer to the next tankful. This is assuming that you have a good filter for the carbs.
TBone208 wrote: "You ppl are such windbags. Go use your crystal ball to get rich & predict something meaningful. Nobody knows what's going to happen. How are we supposed to take ppl who don't know the definition of a recession & "woman" seriously?"

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From New York

Post by wdollie6 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:23 pm

Fat Boy is running the best ever now that the CIS pickup tube is functioning as orginally designed. Completed carb tuning process and all is well, idles nicely at every stop, even after a 50 mile venture this evening. Unfortunately now I have a gas smell to deal with, couple of weeks ago replaced the hose under the spare tire well, thought I was all set. Checked everything from the engine side and no fumes, nothing, will have to pull the tank compartment cover and see whats up in there.

Also did a water test today to see where leaks in rear were coming from, obvious immediately. Air scoops provide direct pathway to rear hatch via screws that held the old hatch wedges in place. Since I use a newer hatch didn't need the wedges so the bolt holes were open. Found the wedges in my stash, installed with a seal and no more leaks. Slider door is another challenge, for some reason doesn't compress the seal enough in the front vertical. Any way to adjust for that without screwing up a great sliding door? Good news is no leaks at the windshield, bad news several on upper front doors.

Thought I was all set for the ME trip, as is typical with a VW always something to keep you busy.
1972 Superbeetle Convertible
1972 Westy Bus
1972 Beetle
1970 Fastback
1966 6V Beetle with Sunroof

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From New York

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:41 pm

wdollie6 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:23 pm
Fat Boy is running the best ever now that the CIS pickup tube is functioning as orginally designed. Completed carb tuning process and all is well, idles nicely at every stop, even after a 50 mile venture this evening. Unfortunately now I have a gas smell to deal with, couple of weeks ago replaced the hose under the spare tire well, thought I was all set. Checked everything from the engine side and no fumes, nothing, will have to pull the tank compartment cover and see whats up in there.

Also did a water test today to see where leaks in rear were coming from, obvious immediately. Air scoops provide direct pathway to rear hatch via screws that held the old hatch wedges in place. Since I use a newer hatch didn't need the wedges so the bolt holes were open. Found the wedges in my stash, installed with a seal and no more leaks. Slider door is another challenge, for some reason doesn't compress the seal enough in the front vertical. Any way to adjust for that without screwing up a great sliding door? Good news is no leaks at the windshield, bad news several on upper front doors.

Thought I was all set for the ME trip, as is typical with a VW always something to keep you busy.

"for some reason doesn't compress the seal enough in the front vertical" For "some reason", eh?

Loosen the 6mm screw and the 5mm screws under the front roller support and try to get the door to rest as close to the support as possible, then tighten the 6mm screw then the 5mm screws. I have been known to grind a cutout in that support to help the door "suck in" further.

Also, you have a slot in the upper roller bracket that allows the roller to be moved in or out. To get the door more flush at the top, you loosen the 13mm nut and slide the roller just 1 or 2 mms outboard. This will serve to draw the door in more flush. Don't overdo it, or the door could actually damage the seal as it closes.
ColinInMontana
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From New York

Post by wdollie6 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:31 am

SGKent, tube is brass with a pin hole nozzle on one end, slides over a smaller tube. When I first pulled it was completely plugged and cracks had started to form along the nozzle end. I will solder repair this one as well as apparently this may be an ongoing issue. So for now all is good with the carbs.

Still have to find the source of my gas fumes as I can find no seepage or wet spots, or even smell fumes in the engine compartment. I replaced all of the gas tank compartment vent hoses, elbows, etc. including filler, when I reassembled the bus (tank was completely refurbished) so not sure what it could be but will open it up to see if I can find the issue. I assume I can remove the bulkhead with the engine in place?

Colin, forgot to mention that I added small drain holes to the gutters in the rear, didn't think I could duplicate the beautiful drain slots on Chloe...
1972 Superbeetle Convertible
1972 Westy Bus
1972 Beetle
1970 Fastback
1966 6V Beetle with Sunroof

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From New York

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:35 pm

wdollie6 wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:31 am
I assume I can remove the bulkhead with the engine in place?

Colin, forgot to mention that I added small drain holes to the gutters in the rear, didn't think I could duplicate the beautiful drain slots on Chloe...


You really should drop the engine three inches or so so the bulkhead can clear the engine front tin without bending the #^!@# out of everything like some #^!$@& chimp. You would have to remove the 15mm transaxle carrier bolts and the 13mm engine hanger bolts. You do not need to disconnect wires or fuel hoses, but take a look anyway to ensure that nothing would pull/tighten up alarmingly.
IF you have an original bulkhead installation on a 1972 bus, you have FOUR lower screws holding the bulkhead to the car. The inner screws are very difficult to reach. If someone has already been in there, they rarely stick the inner screws back in.

Got photos of your drain holes?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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