Mystery Breakdown

[NakedonaHorse]

Hey this is Guenevere for those of you from the Lab who have met me.

I went to go pick up my van this evening after having the breaks done and it died.

The story goes that the guy who fixed the breaks took it for a test drive and it died. I thought that perhaps it had something to do with the temp sensor because in the past when we have jiggled it the van would start (after not starting). Also the guy put a new sensor on, so I thought that maybe it was not making a connection because the plug is old and doesn't have the little metal bracket. But after Gypsy and I went there put some zip ties on the plug and it started, we drove a few blocks stopped, turned it off, then started it up again and drove about a mile then the van died while I was taking off at a stop light. Then we jiggled the senor and that didn't help. We got it going again but then it died again and it died suddenly, rather than petering out. We were also possible having and issue with the battery. It was hard to tell if it was just drained form trying to start it early or if it was not being charged.

I just got the van in January. It is a 84 westie. I drove it up from Monterey California where it sat in my mom's driveway for the past 3 years. She wouldn't even go out and start it once a month so I told her I was taking it. So I put a new battery and spark plugs in and drove it up here. Since it has been here I have driven it about once a week. It has been running fine except that it would sporadically do a weird stutter thing, as if it was loosing power for a second, but then it would be fine. I am a complete novice with mechanics, so I am at the beginning of my journey into VW maintenance.

Bottom line now is that my van is parked on the side of the road and I have no clue what is wrong with it. So I'm looking for some advice/help on what I should do? To make things more complicated I don't have a driveway to tow it to.

[Amskeptic]

Hey my van is parked on the side of the road some advice/help on what I should do?

Hello Naked,
It is too cold here in Portland for such sartorial liberties . . .

You need to perform a proper diagnosis. We need accurate information.

Is there spark during these dead spells. If yes, it is a fuel system issue.
If no, it is an ignition/ignition switch issue.
Colin

[NakedonaHorse]

So turned out that the distributor cap was on backwards and thus not seating properly. Thanks to Frank for saving the day!

[Kubelwagen]

But how are the brakes?

[Gypsie]

I must say that this was quite a head scratcher and we were chasing red herrings.

Glad to hear it is running now. You can go get some outdoor funnin' in and continue to acquaint yourself with your machine.

As far as the brakes, my understanding is that after changing the parts (pads, rotor, shoes(?) and drums(?)) the pedal wants to go almost to the floor before any real engagement...

On the one hand the parts all need to get friendly and seated, but I also think there may be some bleeding to be done...

I say get yourself a jug of brake fluid, a bleeder hose and a helper to bleed them all around yourself. If you had these items at the Lab next Monday we could do one (or maybe all...) so you could check off another maintenance task learned. Although, you did pay for a brake job. Perhaps a trip back to your wrencher, and volunteering to be a pedal presser, may result in some 'warranty service' to assure this task is done properly. If this guy had to keep getting up and down to make sure that the lines were fully bled out, he may have taken some short cuts or (as I have done) let the fluid get too low and introduced air during his bleed out.

[Gypsie]

Oh, and if your bus doesn't have a name, I suggest "the ark"


Naked On A Horse= NOAH.


Did you see what I did there...

[SlowLane]

I say get yourself a jug of brake fluid, a bleeder hose and a helper to bleed them all around yourself...

Add a disposable funnel to that list. Last time I bled my brakes (with the capable aid of a young brake professional who did all the dirty work at the wheels while I just sat in the seat and worked the pedal), I ended up spilling a disgusting amount of fluid into the dash wiring trying to meter a thin stream of fluid out of a liter jug into that little hole in the top of the reservoir. Wasn't until after that mess that I realized that I should have left the flexible plastic drip-sheet in place.

The location of the Vanagon brake reservoir has got to be one of the biggest head-scratchers on this vehicle. What was the reasoning behind that?

[Amskeptic]

The location of the Vanagon brake reservoir has got to be one of the biggest head-scratchers on this vehicle. What was the reasoning behind that?

Efficient packaging.

[Gypsie]

So, Ms. G stopped by the Hammie homestead to get some learnin' on rear brake adjustment and ended up doin some schoolin'...


Let me throw this out there:
When adjusting the rear brakes on the vanagon the star wheel needs to be pushed in the downward direction (through the adjustment hole) to spread the bar and shoes.

Ol' Gypsie presumed (after a few pints and a lengthy and convoluted discussion with Westy Frank and Joseph at the Lab one evening) that the threads on the adjuster bar on both sides of the rig (driver and passenger) were standard "righty tighty lefty loosey".

Imagine my surprise when I realized, after several gentle queries from Guenevere about the possibility that we were turning in the wrong direction, that one side is reverse threaded. DOH!

Now, on to results:

We were able to get the shoes to spread and grab, thereby giving more braking power without requiring a "double pump", though I don't think we went far enough: (ie setting the shoes to grab the drum and then backing off to have every thing in the right position for braking power from the first push on the pedal). I do think that that step would be helpful in eliminating a false feedback reading.

After assuring that the adjusters are set properly then, if it still isn't as responsive as desired, a thorough bleeding of the brakes will eliminate any squishy air in the lines. I am dubious about air in the lines as the front brake component installer ( a shade tree mechanic with demonstrated knowledge. I think I heard that he was an airplane mechanic) said that he did bleed the brakes.


One thing that could be done is to remove the drums from both sides (in turn) to inspect that all the parts are installed properly and functioning as they should (there are many moving parts in there and this is one of those items that it is good to be sure about).

Double thumbs up and a big salute to Guenevere for jumping right in and pretty much doing her own brake adjustment and not poking too much fun at the so called "experienced guidance" she received...

A bus pilot in the works.

[Amskeptic]

Double thumbs up and a big salute to Guenevere for jumping right in and pretty much doing her own brake adjustment and not poking too much fun at the so called "experienced guidance" she received...

A bus pilot in the works.

Yay! I enjoyed meeting her and hope I passed my "test-drive" audition with her Vanagon.

Now THEN.
Self adjusters yank the lever to hook the sawtooth gear right?? That then adjusts the brakes incrementially, YES?? Would then, it not stand to reason that the wheels both must go "rearward"? AND ISN'T IT TRUE, COUNSEL, that the right rear wheel rotates "counter-clockwise" in reverse, and the left rear wheel rotates "clockwise" in reverse THUS necessitating DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS to rotate the adjuster wheel I REST MY CASE.
CollieMason

[NakedonaHorse]

Now that my brakes are functioning to an acceptable level (still want to double check the adjustment on the rear) I'm planning my first over night camping trip for the van maybe this weekend, would be nice to get some lights working in the rig, but hey its camping I guess I can bring my lantern. I'm off to the store today to buy some Pb blaster for that jammed back seat. Woot!

Thanks much for all your help.

[Amskeptic]

Now that my brakes are functioning to an acceptable level (still want to double check the adjustment on the rear) I'm planning my first over night camping trip for the van maybe this weekend, would be nice to get some lights working in the rig, but hey its camping I guess I can bring my lantern. I'm off to the store today to buy some Pb blaster for that jammed back seat. Woot!

Thanks much for all your help.

Overnight camping! What it is!

[NakedonaHorse]

Cool, photo almost looks like a painting, maybe I should paint it!

[Gypsie]

Probably a decent market for bus paintings. I know I'd be interested...

How'd those brakes do on your trip?

[NakedonaHorse]

MMM. not super happy with the breaks. The parking break still doesn't work, and on the way home I think we were smelling breaks as we went down hill.

And I am always available for commission. ;-)