Dyno Graphs for stock 2.0L vs Camper Special
- Bleyseng
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Dyno Graphs for stock 2.0L vs Camper Special
Raby posted these in his newsletter and Colin was asking if there were any for these engines. The difference is torque is where you really feel in a CS vs stock.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
- airkooledchris
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Re: Dyno grahps for stock 2.0L vs Camper Special
I know they always push it as 'in the combo' and all, but I wonder how much of that would be gained with just a change to the 9550 cam and how much of that depends on Len's heads.
Now that a "camper special" is a turnkey only option, with a year wait and $12k bill, it would be nice to know that you could go with a simple cam change during your next build and get that same torque - without having to spend new car money for just an engine.
Now that a "camper special" is a turnkey only option, with a year wait and $12k bill, it would be nice to know that you could go with a simple cam change during your next build and get that same torque - without having to spend new car money for just an engine.
1979 California Transporter
- bretski
- Ellipsis-Meister
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Re: Dyno grahps for stock 2.0L vs Camper Special
:jawdrop: Seriously? Granted, I haven't wandered over to Jake's site in quite some time (years), but daaaaaaaaaaayum...airkooledchris wrote:Now that a "camper special" is a turnkey only option, with a year wait and $12k bill.
1978 Deluxe Westfalia - "Klaus"
"transcripts are overrated. hardware store receipts: those are useful." --skin daddio
"transcripts are overrated. hardware store receipts: those are useful." --skin daddio
- Amskeptic
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Re: Dyno grahps for stock 2.0L vs Camper Special
I am delighted to find that the stock engine has a very nice flat torque curve. 95 ft/lbs at 5,000 rpm is only 5% off the peak at 3,000 rpm, hardly dropping off the face of the earth.Bleyseng wrote:Raby posted these in his newsletter and Colin was asking if there were any for these engines. The difference is torque is where you really feel in a CS vs stock.
(thanks for posting this)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- SlowLane
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Re: Dyno grahps for stock 2.0L vs Camper Special
And it barely drops to 90 ft/lb at 7000 RPM... uhh wait, has anyone been able to drive a stock 2.0L to 7000 RPM without the valves floating and beating holes into the pistons?Amskeptic wrote:I am delighted to find that the stock engine has a very nice flat torque curve. 95 ft/lbs at 5,000 rpm is only 5% off the peak at 3,000 rpm, hardly dropping off the face of the earth.Bleyseng wrote:Raby posted these in his newsletter and Colin was asking if there were any for these engines. The difference is torque is where you really feel in a CS vs stock.
What's more, since horsepower is simply a product of torque and RPM, how in the world does the stock 2.0L develop more power up to 2800 RPM than the camper special? Something doesn't jive between thos two graphs. If the HP lines intersect, so too should the torque lines.
Sorry, my skepticism is showing...
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett
- Bleyseng
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Re: Dyno grahps for stock 2.0L vs Camper Special
I have installed only the 9550 cam on one engine and it does make a difference but not as big a difference if you go to bigger valves (42x36) and the cam change.airkooledchris wrote:I know they always push it as 'in the combo' and all, but I wonder how much of that would be gained with just a change to the 9550 cam and how much of that depends on Len's heads.
Now that a "camper special" is a turnkey only option, with a year wait and $12k bill, it would be nice to know that you could go with a simple cam change during your next build and get that same torque - without having to spend new car money for just an engine.
It would be nice for someone to post a actual dyno sheet of a stock engine. Hmm, Colin sometime soon w/ Bob D?
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
- poptop tom
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Re: Dyno grahps for stock 2.0L vs Camper Special
I really have nothing at all to add regarding dyno graphs and torque.
But I did build an engine using Raby parts. And did it for a hell of alot cheaper
than $12,000. That would be the route to go if spending the big money, and then waiting a year
plus isn't what suits you. I don't have the exact amount spent, but can get those figures.
I used Jake's 9550 cam, Mahle P & C's (from Jake), and purchased his valvetrain upgrade kit.
I also changed to 72-74 HE and exhaust. Exhaust purchased from Raby.
My stock VW heads were sent to Adrian, at Headflow Masters, along with all of Jake's parts
(42x36 valves, etc). Adrian inspected and did the rework.
Other than an oil leak I've yet to identify the origin of, I'm really happy with the power and performance
with this engine!!
But I did build an engine using Raby parts. And did it for a hell of alot cheaper
than $12,000. That would be the route to go if spending the big money, and then waiting a year
plus isn't what suits you. I don't have the exact amount spent, but can get those figures.
I used Jake's 9550 cam, Mahle P & C's (from Jake), and purchased his valvetrain upgrade kit.
I also changed to 72-74 HE and exhaust. Exhaust purchased from Raby.
My stock VW heads were sent to Adrian, at Headflow Masters, along with all of Jake's parts
(42x36 valves, etc). Adrian inspected and did the rework.
Other than an oil leak I've yet to identify the origin of, I'm really happy with the power and performance
with this engine!!
Mr. Blotto wrote, "Boy - thanks for the offer, but a month in poptop tom's world means 5 years"
- yondermtn
- Old School!
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Re: Dyno grahps for stock 2.0L vs Camper Special
Those graphs aren't showing for me.
1977 Westy 2.0FI
1990 Vanagon MV 2.1 Auto
1990 Vanagon MV 2.1 Auto
- yondermtn
- Old School!
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Re: Dyno grahps for stock 2.0L vs Camper Special
oops, now I see them.
carry on
carry on
1977 Westy 2.0FI
1990 Vanagon MV 2.1 Auto
1990 Vanagon MV 2.1 Auto
- sped372
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Re: Dyno grahps for stock 2.0L vs Camper Special
That was the first thing that jumped out at me too. Doesn't add up.SlowLane wrote:What's more, since horsepower is simply a product of torque and RPM, how in the world does the stock 2.0L develop more power up to 2800 RPM than the camper special? Something doesn't jive between thos two graphs. If the HP lines intersect, so too should the torque lines.
1971 Karmann Ghia - 1600 DP
1984 Westfalia - 1.9 WBX
1984 Westfalia - 1.9 WBX
- dingo
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Re: Dyno grahps for stock 2.0L vs Camper Special
i thought Torque and HP should intersect at 5252 rpm
'71 Kombi, 1600 dp
';78 Tranzporter 2L
" Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches."
';78 Tranzporter 2L
" Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches."
- sped372
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Re: Dyno grahps for stock 2.0L vs Camper Special
Not quite...dingo wrote:i thought Torque and HP should intersect at 5252 rpm
HP = Torque (in ft-lbf) * RPM / 5252
The 5252 is just a scalar to account for the ft-lbf. If you wanted to relate horsepower to torque in some other unit (like say, in-lbf) you would use a different number in place of the 5252 but the overall formula stays the same.
Bottom line, because HP is directly proportional to both torque and RPM, if 'Engine A' produces more torque over it's entire RPM range than 'Engine B', then 'Engine B' CANNOT make more HP at a given RPM than 'Engine A' - it just can't happen. Something's goofed.
1971 Karmann Ghia - 1600 DP
1984 Westfalia - 1.9 WBX
1984 Westfalia - 1.9 WBX
- dtrumbo
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Re: Dyno grahps for stock 2.0L vs Camper Special
Be careful questioning the great-one's numbers.sped372 wrote:That was the first thing that jumped out at me too. Doesn't add up.
- Dick
1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.
... as it turns out, it was the coil!
1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.
... as it turns out, it was the coil!
- sped372
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Re: Dyno grahps for stock 2.0L vs Camper Special
I'm not jumping to conclusions or pointing fingers, merely stating what my trained eyes perceive. It's like seeing 2 + 2 = 5.
1971 Karmann Ghia - 1600 DP
1984 Westfalia - 1.9 WBX
1984 Westfalia - 1.9 WBX
- SlowLane
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Re: Dyno grahps for stock 2.0L vs Camper Special
You mean 99? No question about it. They're his forever and ever...dtrumbo wrote:Be careful questioning the great-one's numbers.
Sorry, slightly off topic. C'mon now, Raby's good, but he's not God (or even Gretzky).
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett