1973 Squareback won't start!

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Maz804
Getting Hooked!
Location: Portland, Oregon
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1973 Squareback won't start!

Post by Maz804 » Fri May 14, 2010 9:01 am

:angryfire:

What's with me and fuel issues lately?!

Anyway, the Squareback has a fresh battery, I turn the key to the on position and I hear the 2 clicks, one from the main relay and the other for the fuel pump relay, but then I don't hear the 2 second fuel pump prime noise. When I slowly push the gas pedal I can hear all the injectors clicking. I've seriously gone over so many grounds and wires to make sure everything is plugged in and seated properly.

I had my girlfriend sit in the cockpit and had her turn the key while I used a test light on both the leads to the fuel pump and nothing lit up. If it's working properly it should right?

It's kinda hard to troubleshoot these issues by myself... Please help!

Thanks!
Michael
"I love the curves man... Early Bays got the curves..."

1970 Riviera: Ramona
1969 Safare Camper: Lucy - reduced to parts
1971 Deluxe Transporter: Miles - sold
1963 Bug - sold
1973 Squareback - sold
1979 Westfalia - sold
1967 Bug - sold
1971 Westfalia - sold

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tristessa
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Location: Uwish Uknew, Oregon
Status: Offline

Post by tristessa » Fri May 14, 2010 11:51 am

Put the test light (or better, a voltmeter) on the fuel pump leads and watch for power when the key is turned on and you get the two clicks. Check it both at the pump end and where the wires connect to the relay up under the dash. Check the ground at the pump relay also .. if the ground es no bueno the pump won't work even if it's getting 12V. Gotta complete the circuit...

Just 'cuz the relay clicks doesn't mean it's for-sure good. I've seen that relay get wet & corroded inside from windshield leak. Still looks fine, still clicks .. no power coming out. The contact points inside the relay can be cleaned if they're not too bad (use a fresh crisp dollar bill), or I might have a good one. Check it out.

Whereabouts are you living these days? I'm off 82nd near Johnson Creek Blvd...
Remember, only YOU can prevent narcissism!

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dhoch14
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Location: Granada, ES
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Post by dhoch14 » Fri May 14, 2010 11:56 am

Dear Friend Michael,

I *think* you know the answer to this. Spark and Fuel (and compression) for starting.

If you aren't getting power to the fuel pump, she ain't gonna run. Following the wires until you find where you are losing the power. It could be a disconnected wire at the relay (or maybe the relay). Who knows?!

-d
93 VW T4 2.4D Cali

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Maz804
Getting Hooked!
Location: Portland, Oregon
Status: Offline

Post by Maz804 » Fri May 14, 2010 12:06 pm

I know Dave, but there's jus' so many wires!

I'm still TOTALLY new to this Type 3 business!

Thanks Hal. I was waitin' for you to chime in!

I did have Mel turn the key as I was watching for voltage to the fuel pump harness and no dice. You make a good point about the windshield leaking cause mine does and the relay looks a bit corroded. I can feel it click, but I'm gonna go back out and check that relay again.

Thanks!
Michael
"I love the curves man... Early Bays got the curves..."

1970 Riviera: Ramona
1969 Safare Camper: Lucy - reduced to parts
1971 Deluxe Transporter: Miles - sold
1963 Bug - sold
1973 Squareback - sold
1979 Westfalia - sold
1967 Bug - sold
1971 Westfalia - sold

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Maz804
Getting Hooked!
Location: Portland, Oregon
Status: Offline

Post by Maz804 » Fri May 14, 2010 12:35 pm

Ok, so checked and cleaned the ground and put both a multi-meter and test light to terminal 87 on the relay and when I turn the key there's voltage for 1-2 seconds and then the light turns off. I need to check it at the pump end, but I need to wait until my helper gets back.

Thanks!
"I love the curves man... Early Bays got the curves..."

1970 Riviera: Ramona
1969 Safare Camper: Lucy - reduced to parts
1971 Deluxe Transporter: Miles - sold
1963 Bug - sold
1973 Squareback - sold
1979 Westfalia - sold
1967 Bug - sold
1971 Westfalia - sold

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Maz804
Getting Hooked!
Location: Portland, Oregon
Status: Offline

Post by Maz804 » Tue May 25, 2010 2:07 pm

Okay, so the pump now works. I took the pump out, cleaned the contacts, took off the part with the 3 nipples, :blackeye: and cleaned a bunch of gunk out where the 2 o-rings and plate go. Put it together and I could finally hear it whirring away a for a sec when I turn the key! When I leave the key in on position, I can jump the wire in the engine compartment to turn the pump on and it works. But, there's very little pressure. I can run the pump many times to build up pressure, it will start and run for a few seconds and die.

No kinks in the hose, and all hoses are in correct spot. SHould I take the pump apart even more? Running diesel through it might help?

Help?!
"I love the curves man... Early Bays got the curves..."

1970 Riviera: Ramona
1969 Safare Camper: Lucy - reduced to parts
1971 Deluxe Transporter: Miles - sold
1963 Bug - sold
1973 Squareback - sold
1979 Westfalia - sold
1967 Bug - sold
1971 Westfalia - sold

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tristessa
Trusted Air-Cooled Maniac
Location: Uwish Uknew, Oregon
Status: Offline

Post by tristessa » Tue May 25, 2010 3:36 pm

There isn't any more to take apart.

Pull the screw out of the "extra" nipple between the pair of injectors (probably driver's side) and put a pressure gauge on there, have someone run the pump -- you want 28-32PSI. If you don't get much pressure reading at that point, pinch off the hose across the engine and see if the pressure jumps up.

If it does, un-pinch the hose and adjust the regulator to that range .. and if you can't adjust it enough, replace the regulator.

If it *doesn't* jump up with the hose pinched off, pull the pump and let me play with it. You know where I work .. know where I live? I can PM you the address to bring it by there too...
Remember, only YOU can prevent narcissism!

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Maz804
Getting Hooked!
Location: Portland, Oregon
Status: Offline

Post by Maz804 » Wed May 26, 2010 8:51 am

I took it back out and ran some diesel back and forth through the pump. I created a small fire that I extinguished rather quickly!

But I put it back and it started up! I let it run for about 20 minutes then shut it down, then started it back up. After it sits for more than an hour or so it takes a while to build up pressure again, like it evaporates away. Might need to go through and check all the hoses for cracks. I still need to check the fuel pressure off that little nipple but I tried to take a 8mm socket to it and that's not the right tool. My 1979 FI bus used the 8mm socket, this is something else...

Coming along though!
"I love the curves man... Early Bays got the curves..."

1970 Riviera: Ramona
1969 Safare Camper: Lucy - reduced to parts
1971 Deluxe Transporter: Miles - sold
1963 Bug - sold
1973 Squareback - sold
1979 Westfalia - sold
1967 Bug - sold
1971 Westfalia - sold

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dhoch14
Old School!
Location: Granada, ES
Status: Offline

Post by dhoch14 » Wed May 26, 2010 11:52 am

=D> atta boy!
93 VW T4 2.4D Cali

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tristessa
Trusted Air-Cooled Maniac
Location: Uwish Uknew, Oregon
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Post by tristessa » Wed May 26, 2010 1:43 pm

Sweet!

Now get that screw out and put a gauge on there to check the fuel pressure with.
Remember, only YOU can prevent narcissism!

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Maz804
Getting Hooked!
Location: Portland, Oregon
Status: Offline

Post by Maz804 » Fri May 28, 2010 11:10 am

I no longer have the Squareback... I HAPPILY traded it straight across for a 1963 Beetle!

:bounce:

Now, between the '63 bug and the '71 bus, all my focus is on the type 1 motor!

I am relieved.
"I love the curves man... Early Bays got the curves..."

1970 Riviera: Ramona
1969 Safare Camper: Lucy - reduced to parts
1971 Deluxe Transporter: Miles - sold
1963 Bug - sold
1973 Squareback - sold
1979 Westfalia - sold
1967 Bug - sold
1971 Westfalia - sold

User avatar
tristessa
Trusted Air-Cooled Maniac
Location: Uwish Uknew, Oregon
Status: Offline

Post by tristessa » Fri May 28, 2010 12:23 pm

<snif>

I've got a feeling you were *so* *close*...
Remember, only YOU can prevent narcissism!

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