New Owner, 70' Fasty

Fastback, Squareback, Notchback, T-3 Karmann Ghia.

Moderators: Amskeptic, Sluggo

User avatar
wdollie6
Getting Hooked!
Status: Offline

Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by wdollie6 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:34 am

Owners manual says whenever starting the FI car, pedal to the metal. For carb'd cars this was only after the engine was full warmed as I recall.

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:44 am

wdollie6 wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:34 am
Owners manual says whenever starting the FI car, pedal to the metal. For carb'd cars this was only after the engine was full warmed as I recall.
Geeze Louise ... I have a Type 3 with D-Jet, and its owner's manual is in the glovebox, and I have been driving it for 12 years (only occasionally as of late) and I friggen never read the starting procedure??
Colin ??
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

User avatar
wdollie6
Getting Hooked!
Status: Offline

Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by wdollie6 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:50 am

August 1969 Owners Manual, page 28, "Before starting the engine the accelerator must be fully depressed. This holds true for the engine being cold or after having attained operating temperature and also for low or high outside temperatures."

Doesn't change anything, however interesting to note.

User avatar
asiab3
IAC Addict!
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by asiab3 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:33 pm

Wasn't there some ad copy about being to start the Type 3 VW's by turning the key while standing outside, no footwork involved?

It does make send for the D-Jet Type 3's though, assuming they take manifold pressure into account during cranking. The full throttle would give lower manifold vacuum and thus suggest a richer fuel demand to the ECU. Helpful when starting, not that it really needs it at all when warmed up though…

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
142k miles with me.
319k miles on Earth.

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:57 pm

asiab3 wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:33 pm
Wasn't there some ad copy about being to start the Type 3 VW's by turning the key while standing outside, no footwork involved?

It does make send for the D-Jet Type 3's though, assuming they take manifold pressure into account during cranking. The full throttle would give lower manifold vacuum and thus suggest a richer fuel demand to the ECU. Helpful when starting, not that it really needs it at all when warmed up though…

Robbie
Was it Type 3, or some other? I have never started my Squareback korrectly .... :geek:
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

User avatar
wdollie6
Getting Hooked!
Status: Offline

Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by wdollie6 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:17 am

Latest update. After struggling with keeping the car running, restarting, I decided to refocus on items that I had been through once already. Re-adjusted the AAR valve in a pot of hot water, ensure closed at 120 deg F, done. Followed raygreenwood's procedure for adjusting the throttle valve, done:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... ghlight=tv

Retested MPS resistance and vacuum, good and done (added clamps to hose for good measure). Then decided to go back and check points, and spark at distributor, then plugs, spark at most of the plugs weak or non-existent, wtdh? Turns out my brand new spark plug wires are junk, replaced and wait for it... she started right up and idled to a degree. The best news, after an idle adj. at the manifold, is that I had to turn it off with the key, restarted immediately the same way (no pedal required).

Yeah it was rough but running on its own for the first time, porous muffler doesn't help but will resolve that next. Now to figure out how to properly time the engine. Currently it is set statically but now that I have a consistent idle need to time at 2800 rpms or so, hose off of course. Is there a mark on the pulley?

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:24 am

wdollie6 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:17 am
Latest update. Turns out my brand new spark plug wires are junk, replaced and wait for it... she started right up and idled to a degree.
The best news, after an idle adj. at the manifold, is that I had to turn it off with the key, restarted immediately the same way (no pedal required).

need to time at 2800 rpms or so, hose off of course. Is there a mark on the pulley?

Ha! New! We must endeavor to be properly skeptical at all times ....
Amskeptic

Timing is tricky because of the surfeit of indicator marks on the fan. Find the "0" mark, and rotate the engine clockwise 1 7/8" approx. and you should see a slash mark show up in the little window. It must line up with the edge of the protruberance in the window. Time at 3,800 rpm (get it over and done with!) to that 28* mark.
If you cannot find that discrete mark, use the "0" mark and a degree timing light.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

User avatar
wdollie6
Getting Hooked!
Status: Offline

Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by wdollie6 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:01 pm

Made the mark, set the timing but now realize I have a very warn out distributor. Can move the shaft up and down about a 1/2 inch, maybe more. Will have to find a replacement or have my existing rebuilt, never seen one this bad.

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:49 pm

wdollie6 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:01 pm
Made the mark, set the timing but now realize I have a very warn out distributor. Can move the shaft up and down about a 1/2 inch, maybe more. Will have to find a replacement or have my existing rebuilt, never seen one this bad.

Made the mark or found the mark?
Colin :cyclopsani:
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

User avatar
wdollie6
Getting Hooked!
Status: Offline

Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by wdollie6 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:38 am

Made the mark, no previous mark available. Used your measurement above. Highlighted with finger nail polish TDC and the 28 deg mark.

User avatar
wdollie6
Getting Hooked!
Status: Offline

Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by wdollie6 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:49 pm

Okay, had a few minutes to work on it today, replaced the fuel pressure valve with the NOS valve from Bus Depot was finally able to hold pressure consistently even after shutdown. Still need to replace the gauge that came with the car as I have no idea as to its accuracy, should have a new one tomorrow.

Car started with one turn of the key and after warming up reset the timing at 28 deg, 3000+rpm (slight adjustment only). It held consistently, minimal dancing, but idle was wandering consistently, couldn't adjust it to the 850 + or - 50... Removed screw from idle port and cleaned up but made no difference. I'll install the new gauge tomorrow and see where my pressure has been running, adjust if necessary. I rechecked the throttle valve and it is set properly. After warm up the AAR valve continues to pull a slight vacuum, bad valve or do I need to adjust further?

At higher RPMs starting to run like a real car, idle not so much. I have a NOS muffler coming this week as well, that should protect my hearing a little better.

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:25 pm

wdollie6 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:49 pm
idle was wandering consistently, couldn't adjust it to the 850 + or - 50...
A) clue of a vacuum leak
B) incorrect mixture adjustment
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

User avatar
wdollie6
Getting Hooked!
Status: Offline

Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by wdollie6 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:01 am

A question regarding fuel pressure, or rather the pressure at the gauge. Both gauges I have used to test the fuel pressure will read 28 psi once I have activated the fuel pump relay once or twice, i.e. before start. Once I start the engine and let it idle the fuel pump gauge pegs to the max pressure (60 psi on this gauge) and vacillates some but never drops back to 28 psi while running. This seems strange as everything I have read would indicate that at idle the needle should be locked in at 28 (assuming proper adjustment). Once I shut the engine off it drops to 28 with minimal drop off from there indicating a pretty tight system, still between 15-20 psi this morning.

Last night I tried to adjust the new pressure regulator so that it read 28 psi at idle, engine stalled, obviously from lack of fuel. What am I missing? Yes I installed a new E2000 pump, do the characteristics of this pump impact the pressure readings, i.e. the old pump was rotary (I think) does the new pump work the same way, if so it shouldn't spike, should it? If not what would cause these high/erratic pressure readings, again both gauges acted the same way.

Confused in the Catskills. Might be time for me to focus on rust repair and wait for the itinerant air cooled lap in 2020 to fine tune the engine.

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Status: Offline

Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:33 am

wdollie6 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:01 am
A question regarding fuel pressure, or rather the pressure at the gauge. Both gauges I have used to test the fuel pressure will read 28 psi once I have activated the fuel pump relay once or twice, i.e. before start. Once I start the engine and let it idle the fuel pump gauge pegs to the max pressure (60 psi on this gauge) and vacillates some but never drops back to 28 psi while running. This seems strange as everything I have read would indicate that at idle the needle should be locked in at 28 (assuming proper adjustment). Once I shut the engine off it drops to 28 with minimal drop off from there indicating a pretty tight system, still between 15-20 psi this morning.

Last night I tried to adjust the new pressure regulator so that it read 28 psi at idle, engine stalled, obviously from lack of fuel. What am I missing? Yes I installed a new E2000 pump, do the characteristics of this pump impact the pressure readings, i.e. the old pump was rotary (I think) does the new pump work the same way, if so it shouldn't spike, should it? If not what would cause these high/erratic pressure readings, again both gauges acted the same way.

Confused in the Catskills. Might be time for me to focus on rust repair and wait for the itinerant air cooled lap in 2020 to fine tune the engine.
I am going to guess that the fuel hose routing is not correct, or you may have a kinked or clogged return line, possibly in the tunnel. The factory knot of crap at the pump end is anooying on a good day, but it needs the three nipple set-up in/out/recirc. Do you have questions about the hose routing?
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . . 112,660 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,845 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 112,885 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 78,899 miles

User avatar
wdollie6
Getting Hooked!
Status: Offline

Re: New Owner, 70' Fasty

Post by wdollie6 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:34 pm

No, no questions on hose routing, all is correct. Fuel hoses are all new, return and feed line (solid lines) were both blown out with pressurized air until no additional crap came out (made a mess of the front of the car), no blockage. I also have checked to make sure that excess fuel is returning to the small tank I am using, no problem with this either. The E2000 fuel pump only has an inlet and an outlet, have verified that I have the pump in the proper orientation, i.e. outlet and inlet hoses not swapped, however will check again. Also have verified that the drivers side hard line is supply and the passenger side is return. I wonder if my E2000 has the appropriate check valve, although shouldn't really matter with the pressure at the gauge.

Fastback runs, will idle all day, but the pressure only reads 28 psi when the car is off, while running it is pegged to the max of the gauge. I will play with it again on Monday, after I install the NOS muffler that I just received from CA. Also am sending my distributor to TASB for a rebuild as it loose to say the least.

Post Reply