Committed, Gretchen Ghia Body-Off Restoration.
- Xelmon
- Sedna of VW lovers
- Location: LA or Portland, OR
- Status: Offline
Re: Committed, Gretchen Ghia Body-Off Restoration.
It almost seems like a restoration any later would've been on a much rougher machine.
- ruckman101
- Lord God King Bwana
- Location: Up next to a volcano.
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Committed, Gretchen Ghia Body-Off Restoration.
Oh it has some rough parts. Been a fair weather car sitting in the rain neglected and then run as if she wasn't a fair weather car since we've had her. Got back to her today and pulled all the back interior out. Moldy and surface rust.
Got the guts out of the driver's side door only breaking one bolt off, the stub still not addressed. On the bottom of the window bracket. Doors are still on, nothing left but the hinges and removal. Do I try the pins or the hinge itself at the body. Probably the hinge itself. The impact screw driver served me well today, hoping it will be as effective on the big philips headed bolts on the hinge. Quite a bit of slop on the pin on the driver's side, much less on the other.
The seal has always confounded me. It seems newer. Along with the rest of the door rubber.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070074lr_zpsa601684c.jpg)
But that's stock? And especially the top. Note that the last photo was of the driver's side, and the next the passenger side, but it tucked in and could be seen in the interior on both sides.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070098lr_zps9d9ec960.jpg)
Just above the dash. But then pulling it off, I hit the middle and realized it wasn't just cobbled together, as it was one unit.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070073lr_zpsd7330849.jpg)
Go figure. Maybe trim the top.
Here's what was left of the interior window scraper. The other side was worse.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070071lr_zps67834740.jpg)
So moving into the back, tackling the panels and carpets. The carpeting especially always looked pretty good, and I suspected had also been replaced, but maybe not. Worked my way back, and pieces actually had nails in them. Really, is that stock?
Finally pulled the central piece out. Thick layer of batting. Mold. Surface rust. Not sure what the two holes in the center are for. Extra dusty pieces in the top corners.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070086lr_zps14bbc5ed.jpg)
Then tackled all the vinyl glued on that covered the wall areas under the back seat. Did my best not to destroy anything. Got away with a couple minor tears.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070077lr_zps5d46fced.jpg)
More insulation/fire wall? I don't know. Two chunks of foam on the sides. The long center piece held a fiber slat hiding the space, with again a nail, just one, in the center. It's laying on top in the photo.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070093lr_zps00a054a6.jpg)
The foam crumbled upon touching. As all the foam bits have done on the door and anywhere I find them. Oxidized brittle.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070097lr_zps068db3fc.jpg)
I noticed the tunnel and walls also had a wrap of insulator material.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070075lr_zpsdf771615.jpg)
I plucked at it and a chunk fell off brittle. Looks petroleum based.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070102lr_zps8b626065.jpg)
As does the bubbly goop on the interior of the doors.
So it goes. Overdue, but I bet anyone who starts tells themselves they should have done it sooner. We kinda knew it would be inevitable when we purchased.
neal
Got the guts out of the driver's side door only breaking one bolt off, the stub still not addressed. On the bottom of the window bracket. Doors are still on, nothing left but the hinges and removal. Do I try the pins or the hinge itself at the body. Probably the hinge itself. The impact screw driver served me well today, hoping it will be as effective on the big philips headed bolts on the hinge. Quite a bit of slop on the pin on the driver's side, much less on the other.
The seal has always confounded me. It seems newer. Along with the rest of the door rubber.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070074lr_zpsa601684c.jpg)
But that's stock? And especially the top. Note that the last photo was of the driver's side, and the next the passenger side, but it tucked in and could be seen in the interior on both sides.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070098lr_zps9d9ec960.jpg)
Just above the dash. But then pulling it off, I hit the middle and realized it wasn't just cobbled together, as it was one unit.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070073lr_zpsd7330849.jpg)
Go figure. Maybe trim the top.
Here's what was left of the interior window scraper. The other side was worse.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070071lr_zps67834740.jpg)
So moving into the back, tackling the panels and carpets. The carpeting especially always looked pretty good, and I suspected had also been replaced, but maybe not. Worked my way back, and pieces actually had nails in them. Really, is that stock?
Finally pulled the central piece out. Thick layer of batting. Mold. Surface rust. Not sure what the two holes in the center are for. Extra dusty pieces in the top corners.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070086lr_zps14bbc5ed.jpg)
Then tackled all the vinyl glued on that covered the wall areas under the back seat. Did my best not to destroy anything. Got away with a couple minor tears.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070077lr_zps5d46fced.jpg)
More insulation/fire wall? I don't know. Two chunks of foam on the sides. The long center piece held a fiber slat hiding the space, with again a nail, just one, in the center. It's laying on top in the photo.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070093lr_zps00a054a6.jpg)
The foam crumbled upon touching. As all the foam bits have done on the door and anywhere I find them. Oxidized brittle.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070097lr_zps068db3fc.jpg)
I noticed the tunnel and walls also had a wrap of insulator material.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070075lr_zpsdf771615.jpg)
I plucked at it and a chunk fell off brittle. Looks petroleum based.
![Image](http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh243/ruckman101/P1070102lr_zps8b626065.jpg)
As does the bubbly goop on the interior of the doors.
So it goes. Overdue, but I bet anyone who starts tells themselves they should have done it sooner. We kinda knew it would be inevitable when we purchased.
neal
The slipper has no teeth.
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Committed, Gretchen Ghia Body-Off Restoration.
If you run into evidence of "home-made" assembly, Karmann Ghias were built by hand, unbelievable really that a modern Italian coachbuilder was making these things on a beetle-based floorpan for $2899.00
Colin
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- ruckman101
- Lord God King Bwana
- Location: Up next to a volcano.
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Committed, Gretchen Ghia Body-Off Restoration.
One step at a time. It would appear I need to remove the steering wheel and turn signal/ignition assembly to get the speedometer out of the dash.
neal
neal
The slipper has no teeth.
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Committed, Gretchen Ghia Body-Off Restoration.
Can you just lower the column assembly?ruckman101 wrote:One step at a time. It would appear I need to remove the steering wheel and turn signal/ignition assembly to get the speedometer out of the dash.
neal
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- ruckman101
- Lord God King Bwana
- Location: Up next to a volcano.
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Committed, Gretchen Ghia Body-Off Restoration.
What a concept. I betcha I can.
thanks,
neal
thanks,
neal
The slipper has no teeth.
- Bleyseng
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Seattle again
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Committed, Gretchen Ghia Body-Off Restoration.
"Modern Italian coach builder"? They were built in Osnabrück, Germany..but maybe they used Italian guest workers....Amskeptic wrote:If you run into evidence of "home-made" assembly, Karmann Ghias were built by hand, unbelievable really that a modern Italian coachbuilder was making these things on a beetle-based floorpan for $2899.00
Colin
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Committed, Gretchen Ghia Body-Off Restoration.
Sorry.Bleyseng wrote:"Modern Italian coach builder"? They were built in Osnabrück, Germany..but maybe they used Italian guest workers....Amskeptic wrote:If you run into evidence of "home-made" assembly, Karmann Ghias were built by hand, unbelievable really that a modern Italian coachbuilder was making these things on a beetle-based floorpan for $2899.00
Colin
styling by Italian Ghia and hand-built by the German Karmann.
If I didn't have youse people keeping me on my toes, I would be 98% bullshit 99% of the time.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- ruckman101
- Lord God King Bwana
- Location: Up next to a volcano.
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Committed, Gretchen Ghia Body-Off Restoration.
Well, this is my first experience dismantling a Karmann Ghia down to bare frame, or any auto for that matter. There are certainly curious bits. Interior details like small nails tacking down pieces. Through the metal of the body. Atypical logic. Like the exterior chrome trim on the bottom side of the two rear wing windows. Near as I can figure, flat head screws were mounted into the body, the sealant applied and the trim sorta bayonet mounted, the heads of the screws hitting a wider spot on the channel on the underside of the trim, then trim slid into place. The trim on the doors were clips. I could reach in and feel from underneath, and most assuredly were threaded, but no access to the heads of those screws.
neal
neal
The slipper has no teeth.
- Bleyseng
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Seattle again
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Committed, Gretchen Ghia Body-Off Restoration.
The door scraper chrome trim is held on by clips. Save those as the new ones available are junk and won't hold the chrome on. The door aluminum trim near the bottom is held on by plastic clips and those can be bought new. New trim is available too but pricey and not the same quality as the original.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
- ruckman101
- Lord God King Bwana
- Location: Up next to a volcano.
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Committed, Gretchen Ghia Body-Off Restoration.
The original clips on the scrapers were essentially rusted away. I think I have all the trim for the bottom, but need to assess. It seems like at least one of them wasn't correct. Working with Mike at House of Ghia in Salem for best quality parts that are available. Already have a $800 bill, which will no doubt climb as I find other needed bits.
neal
neal
The slipper has no teeth.
- vdubzen
- Getting Hooked!
- Location: ABQ, NM 87110
- Status: Offline
Re: Committed, Gretchen Ghia Body-Off Restoration.
definitely watching this as we will be starting our resto of my wife's 60 ghia soon.
1960 Karmann Ghia
1968 Deluxe Microbus
1973 Super Beetle
1974 Beetle
president, AAAVWclub.com
1968 Deluxe Microbus
1973 Super Beetle
1974 Beetle
president, AAAVWclub.com
- Bleyseng
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Seattle again
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Committed, Gretchen Ghia Body-Off Restoration.
Let's see some pics of this 60 Ghia!
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Committed, Gretchen Ghia Body-Off Restoration.
Neal . . . update? Photos?
Colin
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- ruckman101
- Lord God King Bwana
- Location: Up next to a volcano.
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Committed, Gretchen Ghia Body-Off Restoration.
Getting very very close. Have managed to extract things with a minimum of destruction to parts extracted. You realize that this is the easy part. Getting it put back together will be the bigger challenge, with essentially every piece removed needing restoration/refurbishing/cleaning and all.
And of course, concerns about the heater channels, as they look a bit bubbly with rust at least on the driver's side. Still scratching my head on a brace across the doors, repeatedly recommended. A prefabbed bolt-on to hinge and strike plate would be sweet, but if available, most likely cost prohibitive.
And of course plenty of advice from those who lack my affliction, and at this point, commitment. Lot's of Craigslist ads for other Ghias sent my way, lo and behold a second body (1974) choice tempting just for the cheap investment. Maybe hang it up on the roof in the big bay of the barn? So lots to ponder.
Including the wisdom of dipping the body to strip it of rust and paint. And I would truly appreciate thoughts of folks regarding this. I ruled out an acid bath dip, and found an outfit that does an eco-friendly electrolysis process I was stoked to utilize. I've seen it referenced here and there as a method to de-rust say headlight mount assemblies and smaller parts with a baking soda solution I believe and a battery charger, but in this case on an industrial level. Then there's the media blasting approach. I've always been drawn to soda blasting, as it strikes me as about as gentle a blast possible over sand or walnut shell plastic bead approaches. The dip just sounded so much less labor intensive on my part. Especially if you bail on media blasting and go to sanding.
I mentioned the dipping plans to my go-to vendor Monday and he was aghast and adamantly recommended the labor intensive prospect of sanding as the best approach. He has of course seen the results of the alternatives, expressing concerns about traces of the solutions of dipping processes and media blasting in crevasses and spots that never get washed truly clean that then eat away and compromise the mission of the processes to begin with. Baking soda is essentially a salt. Most if not all in-fluid electrical conduit additives are. And of course acid is a given corrosive.
So my mind is wrestling with all of that. Does it need to be bare shiny metal absolutely? Sanding the interior where all the crevasses are? Yikes.
I'm down to details of what still needs to be done to get to just metal once the body is lifted off. Speedometer cable, gas flap bits, badging and insignia, some trim, rear-window defrost tubes, wiring to the in-glass defrost and dome light there on the rear-view mirror, a pesky screw still holding on a grill and the piece behind it on the passenger side nostril, gutter trim riveted on on the driver's side, no rivet on the passenger side, it came off easily, and then the front and rear glass, headliner, doors, and front trunk lid.
I'll get some photos up if not tomorrow, Friday.
neal
And of course, concerns about the heater channels, as they look a bit bubbly with rust at least on the driver's side. Still scratching my head on a brace across the doors, repeatedly recommended. A prefabbed bolt-on to hinge and strike plate would be sweet, but if available, most likely cost prohibitive.
And of course plenty of advice from those who lack my affliction, and at this point, commitment. Lot's of Craigslist ads for other Ghias sent my way, lo and behold a second body (1974) choice tempting just for the cheap investment. Maybe hang it up on the roof in the big bay of the barn? So lots to ponder.
Including the wisdom of dipping the body to strip it of rust and paint. And I would truly appreciate thoughts of folks regarding this. I ruled out an acid bath dip, and found an outfit that does an eco-friendly electrolysis process I was stoked to utilize. I've seen it referenced here and there as a method to de-rust say headlight mount assemblies and smaller parts with a baking soda solution I believe and a battery charger, but in this case on an industrial level. Then there's the media blasting approach. I've always been drawn to soda blasting, as it strikes me as about as gentle a blast possible over sand or walnut shell plastic bead approaches. The dip just sounded so much less labor intensive on my part. Especially if you bail on media blasting and go to sanding.
I mentioned the dipping plans to my go-to vendor Monday and he was aghast and adamantly recommended the labor intensive prospect of sanding as the best approach. He has of course seen the results of the alternatives, expressing concerns about traces of the solutions of dipping processes and media blasting in crevasses and spots that never get washed truly clean that then eat away and compromise the mission of the processes to begin with. Baking soda is essentially a salt. Most if not all in-fluid electrical conduit additives are. And of course acid is a given corrosive.
So my mind is wrestling with all of that. Does it need to be bare shiny metal absolutely? Sanding the interior where all the crevasses are? Yikes.
I'm down to details of what still needs to be done to get to just metal once the body is lifted off. Speedometer cable, gas flap bits, badging and insignia, some trim, rear-window defrost tubes, wiring to the in-glass defrost and dome light there on the rear-view mirror, a pesky screw still holding on a grill and the piece behind it on the passenger side nostril, gutter trim riveted on on the driver's side, no rivet on the passenger side, it came off easily, and then the front and rear glass, headliner, doors, and front trunk lid.
I'll get some photos up if not tomorrow, Friday.
neal
The slipper has no teeth.