Ghia engine mysteries

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DjEep
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Ghia engine mysteries

Post by DjEep » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:37 pm

Been battling a severe over heating problem in ol' Betsy. Building a 1776, but that's a ways off (have most of the parts, but waiting to pay off the $250 I owe for the pistons before swinging for the machine work).

She just gets really hot once she starts cruising above about 50mph, to the point where she starts knocking and pinging and the oil light comes on below 2000rpm. It just started a couple weeks ago. She's always had problems maintaining oil pressure at idle once warm, and tended to run high oil temps, but nothing like this.

Timing is perfect, a fat can single vac giving me 0*-30* idle-3500, alchohol free 92oct in the tank, fan functioning, oil cooler unrestricted... I'm lost. Cleaning/rebuilding the carb right now in the hopes that it's just got some crud leaning out the high end mixture.

My wild speculation is that the overly peppy 40hp rebuild in it is too shoddy to take it's own power, and once she heats up the oil pressure drops, losing the ability to lubricate and cool properly, creating a vicious overheat cycle, and now it's reached a critical point. But I'm also crazy and it's probably just the carb. But it was odd that when I adjusted the valves tonight they were all super tight except for the infamous #3 cyl, which could suggest that the oil cooler isn't quite flowing right. Or again, I'm just over thinking.

On a related note, I was looking at random info on carbs tonight and found some aussie guy's VW advice site had detailed articles on carbs and jetting, yet claimed emphatically in several places that the mixture/volume screws on vw single carbs controlled airflow, not fuel flow, and therefore screwing them in would richen the mixture, not the other way around, contrary to every carb I've tuned and every manual or diagram I've studied. I was flabbergasted.
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DjEep
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Re: Ghia engine mysteries

Post by DjEep » Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:53 pm

Got the carb back together. I hope the little chunk I blasted out of the power jet is the culprit. I love getting my mind all in a tizzy over little things... but we'll seee...
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dingo
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Re: Ghia engine mysteries

Post by dingo » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:51 am

DjEep wrote: On a related note, I was looking at random info on carbs tonight and found some aussie guy's VW advice site had detailed articles on carbs and jetting, yet claimed emphatically in several places that the mixture/volume screws on vw single carbs controlled airflow, not fuel flow, and therefore screwing them in would richen the mixture, not the other way around, contrary to every carb I've tuned and every manual or diagram I've studied. I was flabbergasted.

1. doesnt the mixture screw control the flow of air that has fuel emulsified in it ? as opposed to raw liquid fuel ? i might be wrong


2. i was in Berkeley and walked past a restoration shop where a guy was meticulously working om what looked to me like an early Ghia...from direct head-on view....it was just the shell of metal with nothing attached. I asked him and he said no..it was a 1950s Ferrarri designed by Pininfarina Im pretty sure it w as this one: http://www.supercars.net/Pics?viewCarPi ... ID=1031943 as you can see, from the front, it has a very Ghia look to it..especially if you just saw the shell
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DjEep
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Re: Ghia engine mysteries

Post by DjEep » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:22 am

1. True, it is metering emulsified fuel, but fuel none the less. A simple "proof" of this is to screw it in until it starts to sputter and shooting a bit of carb cleaner down the throat. The idle will pick back up, showing a lean mix. do the opposite, screwing it out till it stumbles, and it will stall when that extra "fuel" is introduced.

2. Looks like what the Ghia, MG and P1800 were all trying to be.

3. Ghia runs a bit better now, drove from the shop to skin daddio's on the backroad, hitting 65-70 without even trying, no knocking or smoking, but still had the oil light coming on solid below about 1500rpm by the time I got there.
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Re: Ghia engine mysteries

Post by ruckman101 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:34 am

Uh, oil pump? Sheesh I freak out if my oil pressure light kicks on at idle after a couple hours at freeway speed in weather flirting with 100 degrees. What kind of mileage is she pulling?

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Re: Ghia engine mysteries

Post by Bleyseng » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:03 am

What weight of oil are you using?
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Re: Ghia engine mysteries

Post by hambone » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:39 pm

Worn main bearings? A blockage somewhere in the oil system? Something stuck in the fan housing?
It could just be a tired engine telling you so.
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Re: Ghia engine mysteries

Post by bajaman72 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:57 pm

My engine does the same. Light comes on at idle. RPM's up to 1150-1200 and it goes out. I'm positive it's worn out but it continues to run great as long as I keep oil in it.
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Re: Ghia engine mysteries

Post by DjEep » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:14 pm

I don't think there are many miles on it, and she doesn't have a ton of endplay. I haven't measured, but the ol' pulley push-pull only gives a smidge. I do know the 40hp cases didn't take cam bearings unless they had been bored for them during a rebuild, and I know that it's not the greatest rebuild. (The wax sealing nuts on the case halves being installed wax-out, like someone thought it was a nylock nut are a giveaway that there was a less-than-competent/experienced person building it) So who know's what is going on inside.

I do know that it's the torquiest, fastest, burliest feeling 40hp I've ever driven though, all while getting 40mpg. So I don't want it to die, even if I plan on swapping in the 1776 soon-ish. (Actually still debating whether to put the 1776 in the bus and swap the 1600sp into the Ghia. The 1776dp w/34pict3 on Geri Lou was the best engine I've ever had in a bus. Up to 25mpg @ 65-70mph for up to 14 hours at a clip for over 80,000miles on top of the unknown starting mileage, can't complain...)

Anywhooo... I've seen the oil-light-flicker-at-idle before, but this baby give me steady-on-til-1500-flickering off towards 2000. Eeek!

Oh, and Valvoline VR-1 20w50 with all the zinc-y goodness and thermal resistance up the wahzoo. Half tempted to mix a quart of 90w in there just to see what happens... :tongue:
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Re: Ghia engine mysteries

Post by SlowLane » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:35 pm

Could be a bogus oil pressure switch. Tee a mechanical oil pressure gauge into there so you know exactly what pressure you're getting. Doesn't have to be a clean permanent installation: just long enough to correlate the light flicker with oil pressure.

Also, check to make sure your oil pressure relief valve isn't sticking.
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Re: Ghia engine mysteries

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:01 am

DjEep wrote:it's the torquiest, fastest, burliest feeling 40hp I've ever driven
Two things:

The Aussie dudes get easily confused and don't even know it. They are not amenable to correction either, I've tried.

Mixture screws are mixture screws are mixture screws, end of story. Yes, Bentley/VW obfuscates with mention of "volume control screws".

Air bypass screws (big brass ones) are controlling an emulsified fuel-in-air mixture but why can't we just call them the idle speed screws and be done with it.

An early 40hp engine will of course have a simple mixture screw and a simple speed screw.
I think you have answered why the engine is killing itself. Some dipsy rebuilder gave it all the tricks and has over-clocked the poor thing. There is no such thing as a free lunch. You are already too late, but if you ever do rebuild a 40hp, would you please build it calm and cool? It is SO much better to get up to speed maybe 10 seconds slower but last 100,000 miles. Those 40 horse cases are drying up. I sam annoyed if boyracerbuildershazamman has killed another engine because of no awareness that the power output has to be within the design parameters of the engine.
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DjEep
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Re: Ghia engine mysteries

Post by DjEep » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:15 pm

It was fun while it lasted though :cherry: Now she's an around-towner until that 1776 is done. Debating the cam, stock or mild. Looking for smooth torque, not wild power or flat blecchh. Gonna be single 34pict with stock valve diameters. Possible experimentation with dual carbs in the future, but probably not.

I want to fix up the 40 horse too, just to have around. I'll autopsy it once the new engine is alive.
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Re: Ghia engine mysteries

Post by DjEep » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:30 pm

SlowLane wrote:Could be a bogus oil pressure switch. Tee a mechanical oil pressure gauge into there so you know exactly what pressure you're getting. Doesn't have to be a clean permanent installation: just long enough to correlate the light flicker with oil pressure.

Also, check to make sure your oil pressure relief valve isn't sticking.
Already did both, and even pulled the cooler and flushed it with solvent and air.

Like Colin said, I think 40horses aren't supposed to sound like 4 small cannons firing in time or be prone to chirping tires through first and second gears while cornering from a stop. :pirate: Or be hard to keep under 70 on the most imperceptible of downhills. Oops.
"Live life, love life. Enjoy the pleasures and the sorrows. For it is the bleak valleys, the dark corners that make the peaks all the more magnificent. And once you realize that, you begin to see the beauty hidden within those valleys, and learn to love the climb." - Anonymous

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Re: Ghia engine mysteries

Post by DjEep » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:33 pm

Woot! A local VW master builder has taken my 1776 under his wing! He's doing the machine work for me and lending much advice. So looks like things are moving along nicely in Ghia-land.
"Live life, love life. Enjoy the pleasures and the sorrows. For it is the bleak valleys, the dark corners that make the peaks all the more magnificent. And once you realize that, you begin to see the beauty hidden within those valleys, and learn to love the climb." - Anonymous

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dingo
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Re: Ghia engine mysteries

Post by dingo » Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:48 pm

Vw engine master ? you mean you got skindaddio out of his fishin' chair ?

so..share the secrets passed down from the master already !

By the way, the latest version of 'Lloyds 007 Resprung Manifesto' is now a healthy tome of 7 pages, all hand-scribbled with various cartoonish illustrations
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