The Axe Falls

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Amskeptic
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Re: The Axe Falls

Post by Amskeptic » Sun May 22, 2011 8:11 pm

airkooledchris wrote: it's not the opinion - it is the manner in which it is expressed and (even more so) the volume at which it's been done at.
Thank-you.

I have all number of fierce opinions about the state of the world, but I refuse to mock members of this forum who hold diametrically opposed opinions. Those here who decided that I was talking about them personally when I called Dick Cheney a dick, chose to read it the way they read it. Likewise, when I read that I am a hypocritte and a despot and a loon, there was no choice of interpretation, it was a violation that threatened the adult level of discourse that we all need to work to restore.

Unfortunately, I got sucked in to arguments that only diminished my self-respect and enjoyment of my work here. Situation dealt with.
Colin
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Re: The Axe Falls

Post by steve74baywin » Mon May 23, 2011 5:18 am

Amskeptic wrote:
airkooledchris wrote: it's not the opinion - it is the manner in which it is expressed and (even more so) the volume at which it's been done at.
Thank-you.

I have all number of fierce opinions about the state of the world, but I refuse to mock members of this forum who hold diametrically opposed opinions. Those here who decided that I was talking about them personally when I called Dick Cheney a dick, chose to read it the way they read it. Likewise, when I read that I am a hypocritte and a despot and a loon, there was no choice of interpretation, it was a violation that threatened the adult level of discourse that we all need to work to restore.

Unfortunately, I got sucked in to arguments that only diminished my self-respect and enjoyment of my work here. Situation dealt with.
Colin
Oh thanks, so he was banned because he responded to your post to me (and what he said), the showing of a side of yourself that you may, or may not, be proud of. It saddens me that I was somehow involved in that.
The way he jumped in there was as if maybe he has seen you drive off too many members already and didn't want to see you do it again.
Not for nothing Colin, but whether you and others realize this or not, from my side of the fence, the side of a major minority when it comes to this forum, you and others whether knowingly or not, operate like the herd keeping themselves in check. (not in a good way).
There is a ganging up effect, rudeness and insults that I would guess have driven off any of the real objectors to your philosophy. Can you perhaps sit back and think of how many people who you have gotten into thick debates with that are no longer posting here?
I have come back here several times after willingly going away. I talk about these things to others all the time, here I see a core of people that are hell bent on a belief that don't seem to have the normal reaction they should when presented with certain info. Instead I see a sort of unconscious group bullying to get the odd man to join the group.
It is just my perception.

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Re: The Axe Falls

Post by glasseye » Mon May 23, 2011 8:23 am

steve74baywin wrote:
... you and others whether knowingly or not, operate like the herd keeping themselves in check. (not in a good way).
There is a ganging up effect, rudeness and insults that I would guess have driven off any of the real objectors to your philosophy.

here I see a core of people that are hell bent on a belief ...

... Instead I see a sort of unconscious group bullying to get the odd man to join the group.

It is just my perception.


Can you be a little more specific?

What, precisely, is the philosophy of "the herd" , here?
"This war will pay for itself."
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Re: The Axe Falls

Post by steve74baywin » Mon May 23, 2011 10:06 am

glasseye wrote:
steve74baywin wrote:
... you and others whether knowingly or not, operate like the herd keeping themselves in check. (not in a good way).
There is a ganging up effect, rudeness and insults that I would guess have driven off any of the real objectors to your philosophy.

here I see a core of people that are hell bent on a belief ...

... Instead I see a sort of unconscious group bullying to get the odd man to join the group.

It is just my perception.




Can you be a little more specific?

What, precisely, is the philosophy of "the herd" , here?
I can explain what I meant by herd philosophy. I really want to keep things good. I was offering something up to Colin, but I want everyone to stay happy.
So I don't want to get too deep into this, it will be hard for me if I go on too long to avoid pissing someone off.

Some have observed in nature, animals and humans, that we keep each other in check.
If someone comes up with an idea that is way different, it has been noted that people ridicule, in an attempt to get them to conform. Or, people want there ideas protected and will lash out to keep everyone in line, in check. I guess in some herds or flocks, or maybe in a chicken coop, if one chicken starts acting odd like some other animal, the other chickens will give her a beating. It seems to be something that people and other animals just do, it is in there nature to keep the world around them like they are comfortable with.
If you want more on this, I would prefer to take it private.

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Re: The Axe Falls

Post by airkooledchris » Mon May 23, 2011 10:54 am

another thing people tend to do in society, is make sure the loudest voice in the crowd isn't given false attention, or allow it to steer the ship just because it's volume is so difficult to ignore. if push comes to shove, the herd in your scenario will take a stand. it's annoying to the shepherd and his buddies, sure - less control over the situation, but less so to the flock.
no beatings required, no labeling of said noisemakers as a sheep, chickens or geese, just life on the ol interweb - where stereotypes about normal societal behaviors are rarely applicable. keeping a healthy open discussion on a message board isn't the same as any other real world scenario, you really can only compare it to other message board management situations and the lessons that have been learned there.

claiming to be holding back true feelings in fear of angering others is just passive aggressive, when posted 'aloud' to the board.
so you may as well say it, or not say that your not saying it, because saying that your not saying it is the same thing - just more smug.

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Re: The Axe Falls

Post by Amskeptic » Mon May 23, 2011 11:13 am

airkooledchris wrote:another thing people tend to do in society, is make sure the loudest voice in the crowd isn't given false attention, or allow it to steer the ship just because it's volume is so difficult to ignore. if push comes to shove, the herd in your scenario will take a stand. it's annoying to the shepherd and his buddies, sure - less control over the situation, but less so to the flock.
no beatings required, no labeling of said noisemakers as a sheep, chickens or geese, just life on the ol interweb - where stereotypes about normal societal behaviors are rarely applicable. keeping a healthy open discussion on a message board isn't the same as any other real world scenario, you really can only compare it to other message board management situations and the lessons that have been learned there.

claiming to be holding back true feelings in fear of angering others is just passive aggressive, when posted 'aloud' to the board.
so you may as well say it, or not say that your not saying it, because saying that your not saying it is the same thing - just more smug.
Interesting point here . . .

Steve, my issue with turk precedes your conversation with him. My issue with turk is not related to his or your viewpoints or opinions. May I strongly suggest that you look at the people on this board as sentient individuals rather than cows. There is no "conspiracy of liberalism" or whatever. Occasionally there is agreement and occasionally their is disagreement. I will not stand by as people work up labelled walls of division.

His second chance was offered in good faith and I get a whole new truck load of hypocrite/loon/despot? He was offered moderator status and discovered that I wasn't playing "god" and said so himself. Yet, he just could not resist the barrage of potshots. I am done with that nonsense. It is over.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: The Axe Falls

Post by steve74baywin » Mon May 23, 2011 11:18 am

airkooledchris wrote: claiming to be holding back true feelings in fear of angering others is just passive aggressive, when posted 'aloud' to the board.
so you may as well say it, or not say that your not saying it, because saying that your not saying it is the same thing - just more smug.
That part I do not agree with in this case. The more time and examples I give, the more chance someone will connect with one of them, and then get pissed. I know what you are saying, but what I say is true to. If I go all out with a mega in depth explanation, there may be more getting upset than what already did.

Edited to add,
Anyways, I am done in this thread. I say that in a good way.
I feel there has been enough attention on a negative issue.

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Re: The Axe Falls

Post by hambone » Mon May 23, 2011 12:05 pm

Why would a Contrarian come into a room of terribly nice and helpful people and act like a dick?
It's pretty easy to see. The nice and helpful people "get involved" because they care. The same people have apparently had enough. After how many times?
All this "herd" nonsense is a crock of crap. Give us some credit around here while you try to de-construct an infinite and terribly complex social reality. If you aren't seeing the creator's hand in everything then you are barking up the wrong tree. Not everything is the Wizard hiding behind a green curtain.
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Re: The Axe Falls

Post by hambone » Mon May 23, 2011 12:36 pm

Steve is OK in my book but he calls everybody a herd.
"Is that a box of Corn Chex? HERRRRRRRRRRRRD!!!!"
Nuts but not as nuts as 3/5 of us. A for effort tho.
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Re: The Axe Falls

Post by Ritter » Mon May 23, 2011 7:13 pm

@ Steve,

You are correct in the "ganging" up aspect of your perception in that there is a strong liberal, socially progressive and environmentally sensitive leaning to many (maybe even the majority) of this board. The problem is in Turk's delivery, as has been said. I don't agree with much of what you believe, but I'm willing to consider and listen to it because you come to the discussion with a desire to discuss, not a desire to be a dick. There is a big difference. Argument for argument's sake and the ability to belittle someone is very different from discussion of ideas--similar or dissimilar. I appreciate your contribution to the forum even if I don't necessarily agree with it. I may even get into it with you, but will aim to remain respectful as there are many ways to approach this game of life.
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Re: The Axe Falls

Post by drewniverse » Mon May 23, 2011 9:14 pm

Nice.. I get to destroy the thread with my anti-mated gifness... ;)
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Re: The Axe Falls

Post by Velokid1 » Tue May 24, 2011 7:27 am

Part of me feels like this doesn't need to be discussed any further. Just get back to participating, enjoying the discussions. Maybe we should stop talking about what we don't want to see and what we do want to see, and just start doing it again.

All the explanations feel too much like further finger-pointing. Turk was the catalyst, but no one person deserves all the blame. Many of us have allowed it to make us behave in ugly ways.

Onward!

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Re: The Axe Falls

Post by glasseye » Tue May 24, 2011 9:09 am

drewniverse wrote:Nice.. I get to destroy the thread with my anti-mated gifness... ;)
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Excellent! Should be someone's avatar. :pirate:
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Re: The Axe Falls

Post by hambone » Tue May 24, 2011 1:32 pm

Re-reading what I wrote makes me want to take it back. When emotions get charged, people get riled up and say and do things they don't necessarily mean. We can all give or absorb various vibrations - but the key is positive consistency, however jagged a line it may be.
Apologies to anyone offended, onward, and there's a bigassed crow walking around outside.
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