Happy Tax Day!

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Amskeptic
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Happy Tax Day!

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:11 pm

so pay up!

(from Senator Bernie Sander's Corporate Freeloader page)

EXXON MOBIL
Income: 19 billion
Tax: 156 million rebate from IRS

BANK OF AMERICA
Income: 4.4 billion
1 trillion bail-out
Tax: 19 billion rebate from IRS

GENERAL ELECTRIC
Income: 14 billion
Tax: 4.1 billion refund

CHEVRON
Income: 10 billion
Tax: 19 million

BOEING
Income: 30 billion Pentagon contract
Tax: 124 million refund from IRS

VALERO
Income: 68 billion gross sales
Tax: 134 million refund over past three years due to oil/gas tax reduction

GOLDMAN SACHS
Income: 2.3 billion
Tax: 1.1% but were paid percentage of 800 billion bail-out

CITIGROUP
Income: 4 billion
Tax: 0 paid were paid percentage of bail-out.

CONOCO PHILLIPS
Income: 16 billion 2007-2009
Tax: 451 million refund from IRS

CARNIVAL CRUISE LINES
Income: 16 billion over past five years
Tax: 1.1% over past five years

... so we do hear about the corporate tax rate being an "onerous burden" but do you really believe it? Meanwhile, you little people best pay your taxes, there are needy corporations depending on you.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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turk
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Re: Happy Tax Day!

Post by turk » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:21 pm

I'm getting a refund too.
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"Let me be perfectly clear" "[...] And so that was just a example of a new senator, you know, making what is a political vote as opposed to doing what was important for the country." Barry Sotero

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yondermtn
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Re: Happy Tax Day!

Post by yondermtn » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:05 pm

woo hooo!!
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yondermtn
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Re: Happy Tax Day!

Post by yondermtn » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:08 pm

Here is an interesting link to play around with.

http://www.wheredidmytaxdollarsgo.com/
1977 Westy 2.0FI
1990 Vanagon MV 2.1 Auto

steve74baywin
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Re: Happy Tax Day!

Post by steve74baywin » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:31 pm

My income is so low now, and with kids in college, I actually am getting more back than I paid. I still am not for using guns and the threat of jail to take money from anyone, even when it appears that someone else must have paid more taxes in order for me to get a larger refund than I paid. The truth to the matter is some of the money they are giving me is probably entered into the gov system from borrowed or created money which lowers the value of my dollar, which is a hidden tax. So I really didn't gain anything, I can expect the cost of things to go up even more.

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Re: Happy Tax Day!

Post by Sylvester » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:11 pm

No refund for me I paid this year.
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Re: Happy Tax Day!

Post by ruckman101 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:26 pm

Certainly only the tip of the iceberg of shirking tax responsibilities.


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Amskeptic
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Re: Happy Tax Day!

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:05 pm

steve74baywin wrote: I actually am getting more back than I paid.
The truth to the matter is some of the money they are giving me is probably entered into the gov system from borrowed or created money which lowers the value of my dollar, which is a hidden tax. So I really didn't gain anything, I can expect the cost of things to go up even more.
Well, your "hidden tax" rationale hits those of us who pay taxes, too!

I am all for tax refund for the little guys. That money floods back into the economy.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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dtrumbo
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Re: Happy Tax Day!

Post by dtrumbo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:29 pm

Amskeptic wrote:That money floods back into the economy.
Boy it sure does at our house. Yeah, it's a non-interest bearing savings account, but I know I would never have saved that much over the year. When that refund rolls in it pays for an otherwise unaffordable splurge.

Maybe GE took all of their employees on a cruise with their refund money. Maybe not.
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Re: Happy Tax Day!

Post by steve74baywin » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:44 am

Amskeptic wrote:
steve74baywin wrote: I actually am getting more back than I paid.
The truth to the matter is some of the money they are giving me is probably entered into the gov system from borrowed or created money which lowers the value of my dollar, which is a hidden tax. So I really didn't gain anything, I can expect the cost of things to go up even more.
Well, your "hidden tax" rationale hits those of us who pay taxes, too!

I am all for tax refund for the little guys. That money floods back into the economy.
Colin
Yes, the hidden tax effects those who paid and those who don't.
You state that money flows back into the economy. Let me think about that.
If that money that is flowing back into the economy is created out of nothing, overall I think the greater harm far outweighs any good. It may on a temporary basis extend living for a time, but what happens later? It is creating a beast that must keep getting fed, more money must get created and fed into the system. This to me is one of the roots of the problem, those needing this are dependent on those creating it. Those wealthy many of us do not like are needed to keep us fed. I would much rather break the chains from this system and start creating the ability to live without it.

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Re: Happy Tax Day!

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:50 am

steve74baywin wrote:
Amskeptic wrote:
steve74baywin wrote: I actually am getting more back than I paid.
The truth to the matter is some of the money they are giving me is probably entered into the gov system from borrowed or created money which lowers the value of my dollar, which is a hidden tax. So I really didn't gain anything, I can expect the cost of things to go up even more.
Well, your "hidden tax" rationale hits those of us who pay taxes, too!

I am all for tax refund for the little guys. That money floods back into the economy.
Colin
Yes, the hidden tax effects those who paid and those who don't.
You state that money flows back into the economy. Let me think about that.
If that money that is flowing back into the economy is created out of nothing, overall I think the greater harm far outweighs any good. It may on a temporary basis extend living for a time, but what happens later? It is creating a beast that must keep getting fed, more money must get created and fed into the system. This to me is one of the roots of the problem, those needing this are dependent on those creating it. Those wealthy many of us do not like are needed to keep us fed. I would much rather break the chains from this system and start creating the ability to live without it.
We are a *consumer economy*, like it or not. To increase *demand* we need people who can consume. The best utilization of funds is NOT to give GE a 4 billion dollar refund, but to ease the burdens on the middle and lower classes. If I hear the argument that we are "giving" money to the poor and fostering "dependency", I am going to redirect you to the first post in this thread.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Happy Tax Day!

Post by steve74baywin » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:04 am

Amskeptic wrote:
steve74baywin wrote:
Amskeptic wrote:
steve74baywin wrote: I actually am getting more back than I paid.
The truth to the matter is some of the money they are giving me is probably entered into the gov system from borrowed or created money which lowers the value of my dollar, which is a hidden tax. So I really didn't gain anything, I can expect the cost of things to go up even more.
Well, your "hidden tax" rationale hits those of us who pay taxes, too!

I am all for tax refund for the little guys. That money floods back into the economy.
Colin
Yes, the hidden tax effects those who paid and those who don't.
You state that money flows back into the economy. Let me think about that.
If that money that is flowing back into the economy is created out of nothing, overall I think the greater harm far outweighs any good. It may on a temporary basis extend living for a time, but what happens later? It is creating a beast that must keep getting fed, more money must get created and fed into the system. This to me is one of the roots of the problem, those needing this are dependent on those creating it. Those wealthy many of us do not like are needed to keep us fed. I would much rather break the chains from this system and start creating the ability to live without it.
We are a *consumer economy*, like it or not. To increase *demand* we need people who can consume. The best utilization of funds is NOT to give GE a 4 billion dollar refund, but to ease the burdens on the middle and lower classes. If I hear the argument that we are "giving" money to the poor and fostering "dependency", I am going to redirect you to the first post in this thread.
Colin
The differences of our opinions might stem from this. Yes we are a consumer economy, but we don't have a natural one which would be created by true supply and demand, based upon peoples efforts. The reason for such things and discussions like this is because we have a controlled economy, controlled by too many rules and regulations and we are using FIAT currency. (currency controlled by the same people who control the corporations and politicians IMHO)
In one sense I would say you are correct, if we do not change the system. If we keep one with fake, FIAT money and one with tons of gov rules and regulations, then I can see fighting to get the cards stack in our favor for a while. But I am looking to correct the currency and rule aspect which I blame this problem on.
So if this thread is to be about these little changes that might help us on a temporary basis, then I will not go on anymore, you know where I stand, and I stated my thoughts for those to read who may not already know where I stand.
If you want further discussions on my thoughts on what I think is a better and more permanent fix, which would be a major change in our system, then I will continue.

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turk
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Re: Happy Tax Day!

Post by turk » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:08 am

I'm not sure of the authenticity of this account but it is interesting:
Do you know why the "withholding tax" system was put into place? Let me provide you with just one shocking example of how things work behind the scenes:


Declassified (Confidential Committee Print)
Withholding Tax Hearing Before A Subcommittee of The Committee on Finance,
United States Senate, 77th Congress, Second Session on:
Data Relative to Withholding Provisions of the 1942 Revenue Act, August 21 and 22, 1942
(Printed for the use of the Committee on Finance)
United States Government Printing Office, Washington 1942
SUMMARY/Contents Statement of:
Friedman, Milton, Division of Tax Research, Treasury Department
Hardy, Charles O., of Brookings Institution
Jacobstein, Meyer, of Brookings Institution
Paul, Randolph E., Treasury Department

Overview

Because the war effort resulted in increased production and employment, which caused a sudden large influx of money into circulation, the Federal Government and Federal Reserve System had to find a method of "mopping up excess purchasing power" thereby control inflation and obtain immediate funds for the Treasury. Several plans were put forth before the House, Ways & Means Committee and the Senate Committee on Finance to accomplish this purpose.

The following points were made by the Senators and those testifying before the committee:

1. The overall purpose was to obtain immediate money for the war effort, to control inflation and to get the income tax on a current basis instead of being one year behind.

2. To accomplish this goal, it was recognized that a scheme was needed to reach the largest number of people.

3. That the scheme, regardless of whether it was a "coupon," "stamp" or "withholding of income tax at source," would constitute a "forced loan" to the Federal Government and it would apply to taxpayers and nontaxpayers alike, with exceptions.

4. Where an individual had money withheld and ultimately no tax liability, the individual would file an income tax return and that income tax return would constitute an automatic claim for refund.

5. The proposed plan was an emergency war time measure.

link

What follows the above block-quote is even more interesting: testimony at a congressional hearing by three Brookings Institute scholars and Milton Friedman of the U.S. Treasury Dept.
A man said to the universe, "Sir I exist! "However," replied the universe, "the fact has not created in me a sense of obligation."

"Let me be perfectly clear" "[...] And so that was just a example of a new senator, you know, making what is a political vote as opposed to doing what was important for the country." Barry Sotero

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