Cuttin Thru The Bullshit

[turk]

Watching the situation going on with the federal budget, and the Wisconsin political battle, one has to note a few things. On the federal budget battle: the democrats didn't even propose a budget in October, when they could have easily passed it with their majority. This is April, and they are more inclined to shut down the government than allow anything to get passed. In Wisconsin, what the "unions" really want is continued control over their members' money and political clout, rather than accede abolishing the automatic $700 per year paycheck deductions taken by the state, given to the union; re-certification by a majority of union members every two years; and collective bargaining privileges.
So, the democrats are looking for the shut-down, rather than a republican victory embodied by spending cuts; and the unions desperately cling to their political clout enabled by obsolete laws that harm more people than they than benefit. The country, states, counties, and municipalities hold elections regularly. Politicking after the elections' outcomes, over what the elected representatives do what they were seemingly elected to do, is pretty straightforward (LOL). Their tactics used are transparent indeed.

[Randy in Maine]

"Earth to Turk. Earth to Turk. Come in Turk."

Damn! He has drifted off on us again.

[turk]

I'm here.

[Randy in Maine]

No you aren't.

[turk]

What are you talkin' about? I'm talkin' to ya' guy. Ya' can't hear it? What you smokin'? Nice bus resto BTW.

[turk]

Pssssst. Randy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

[airkooledchris]

anyone getting Déjà vu?

look kids, it's Big Ben, and Parliament.

[skin daddio]

anyone getting Déjà vu?

look kids, it's Big Ben, and Parliament.

i see oj and kato satisfied at mcdonalds having cut through the bullshit.

[RussellK]

Will the moderator please change the thread title to propagating the bullshit?

[Westy78]

When you've become a punch line maybe it's time to take a break eh?

[Amskeptic]

what the "unions" really want is continued control over their members' money and political clout,

Ask any union members recently if they do not like what their union is doing for them?
Colin

[Lanval]

what the "unions" really want is continued control over their members' money and political clout,

Ask any union members recently if they do not like what their union is doing for them?
Colin

The problem Colin, is with the formulation of the original question; that's why I was busting Turk's chops in the other thread. Here, let me make it clear: the ethics or honesty of the unions is NOT the issue. Of course they unions are greedy, dishonest, scamming organizations designed to enrich the leaders while tangentially using the members AND improving their lives (to a lesser extent).

Not only is that not surprising, it is SUPPOSED to be that way. Unions were designed to counter the power of private companies and trusts. As such they must mimic the corporations in order to have the necessary power/wealth to reasonably combat the private sector.

Tolkien said it long ago (I paraphrase): "In order to overthrow a terrible power, the more like it one must become, until 'lo!' a new power has arisen scarce discernible from the old."

Of course union members support unions (generally). They quite rightly recognize that the only thing between the workers and 10 hour days at low pay and no benefits are the unions. The reason they know this to be true is because that's where they started in the 19th century. The unions are of course all the horrible things people say they are; but that's what enables them to counter the equally nefarious forces of private business.

As for the red herring issue of governmental oversight eliminating the need for unions... bullshit. The framers of the constitution didn't think leaving things in the hands of the government was safe; oversight and competing interests (system of checks and balances) was the only method to limit corruption ~ give power to different competing groups and let 'em use that against each other.

The unions are evil. A very, VERY necessary evil. Without them the private corporations would return us to serfdom as fast as they could buy the legislation. Which would be very fast indeed.

L.

[Amskeptic]

The unions are evil. A very, VERY necessary evil. Without them the private corporations would return us to serfdom as fast as they could buy the legislation. Which would be very fast indeed.
L.

Succinct. True enough.
=D> =D>

[turk]

Can we assume that corporations are an equally necessary evil then? I am not being a cheerleader. I am asking a question.

[RussellK]

Are you asking if corporations are necessary or are you asking if they are evil? Are you using the term corporation as a descriptor of what is actually business? Personally I'm not in agreement that either entity is evil and I think they are both necessary.