Corporate Taxes!!!!!!

[BellePlaine]

No, BellePlaine, just as our government was designed and created to SERVE its constituents, We The People! it indeed does now serve, it still serves, it exists to serve, it s.e.r.v.e.s! It does not have its own mind, its own agenda, it does not! Who does it serve? It serves the Monied Interests! Every damn congressperson who ignores his individual constituents while promising sweetheart deals to corporate benefactors is committing treason against our government. You blame the government. I blame the Monied Interests who know damn well that they seduce the congressman with junkets for favors. You know it too.


Colin

Colin, how far would these Monied Interests get if our congresspersons would not make the deals to accept these favors? They would get nowhere. So, I ask you, who works for who? The way that I read your argument, it sounds like our congressmen are just poor spineless souls who, dang it, might be easily corrupted if tempted. BS. Are you saying that since some of these congresspersons accept these favors, it's the corporations that we have to watch out for, and nevermind holding our sellout representatives accountable (who we hire to serve not the rich nor the poor nor any particular group other then Americans). I think that we should demand more dignity from our government. I know that it's not just Republicans who can be bought. Pie-in-the-sky? It it a sad state, I agree but it shouldn't be.

[turk]

In theory one party is not for monied interests; rather it is for the "people", and "working families", and "protecting the environment", and "responsibility to act", and "humanitarian" causes. In theory the other party isn't for those same things; rather "busting and crippling unions", giveaways and welfare to elites; unprovoked wars against little third world countries with one objective: to steal their resources; to pollute the environment and cover it up with disinformation. Uh huh. Okaaaaay. If yer a simple-minded partisan that's the obvious break-down. The chart one carries in the forefront of their brain. It's hammered with a chisel into their forehead by media "experts" who know the score. It's reiterated by academic scholars who refine the message and tighten up the loose ends in the template for the intellectual "curiosity" of the partisan. It's disseminated in the collective brain tissue of the partisan group and defended fiercely with a presumption of superiority, and condescension. When threatened by the exposure of little imperfections in the facade, the narrative, the partisan lashes out with whatever means necessary to protect its holy grail of superiority. It pulls out its trump card, such as "race" or "poverty" or "greed", or curses and throws a fit to show it has a "heart".

[Velokid1]

I can't blame these corporations for trying to get away with the shit that we've allowed them to get away with before.

Why can't you?

But I can blame our government, who we elected,

IMO, you often confuse "government" with "elected individuals." There's a big difference.

Big Money is a problem, but government is the bigger problem.

See above. Big Money (the corporations) IS government (the individual politicians installed by corporations). The language you use does matter, BP. If you mean "corrupt individuals who have hijacked government," then say that. Don't continually say just "government." The government isn't the enemy; the corporate puppets that corporations pay handsomely to have put at the helm are the enemy.

I know, sorry about that. As I was writing, I was thinking back to our "sneaky little fucker" thread from a year or two back.

I don't remember that thread and have a feeling I don't want to.

[Velokid1]

Ya' think everyone thinks like you do? I've got news for ya'. You're preaching doesn't persuade my opinion. I'm not alone. Intelligent people agree with me.

Do you think you're a jerk, turk?

[Amskeptic]

Colin, how far would these Monied Interests get if our congresspersons would not make the deals to accept these favors? They would get nowhere. So, I ask you, who works for who? The way that I read your argument, it sounds like our congressmen are just poor spineless souls who, dang it, might be easily corrupted if tempted.

It is a chicken/egg conundrum worthy of a careful look.
Look into your heart for answers as well.

I could imagine being an idealistic congressperson with great hopes for representing my constituents. Then I get hit with a monster advertising bill for my campaign!
Are you still with me?

Now I have to cough up money! Who do I ask? The corporations charging me $3,000.00 for 30 seconds of airtime and $10,000.00 monthly phone bills are demanding money! So I ask other corporations who offer to help me pay so long as I give them a "fair shake" on some regulatory bill.
Still with me here?

Let's not be simplistic. It is a complex issue where the power/money brokers have squeezed our representatives between rocks (very expensive to play) and hard places (prostituting principles).

I'd like to see public financing. Watch the corporations declare that they are being "denied" a voice ($$) if public financing ever should occur. It is rotten. Poor corporations, democracy is just so hard.
Your response is welcome.
Colin

[BellePlaine]

I'm with you; there are corporate and lobbyist jackals willing to sponsor candidates in which the candidate feels compelled to accept any money that they can get in order to get into office. Yes, I get that and it would be nice if the public had a better idea of the baggage they were voting for... like corporate tax cuts, exemptions, contracts, etc.

However, I still maintain that the solution lies not in trying to tame these jackals but to hold our elected officials, Velo, accountable to do the job they were hired to do on behalf of their employers, the people. If they can't represent us, then who can? It seems like we are spinning our wheels trying to regulate Big Money into leaving us alone because we can't refuse a buck.

Speaking of public financing, as a student libertarian, I think that it would be a good idea. I'd liken it to any public infrastructure like roads and bridges. Personally, I'd like to see a moratorium of political paid advertising in lieu more debates. I want less spin, selling, and mud slinging and more depth.

Is this thread getting too far off course?

[ruckman101]

Off course? Nah. So many issues are all rolled up into one huge quaqmire of interconnectivity. It's a mess.


neal

[BellePlaine]

You know, at the heart of it, I feel like our government has tried change with the times, each update added another layer of rules; some rules are good if they are written to protect all of us as group of Americans. I think that rules benefiting any one particular group of people is likely to have a lobbyist working for someone's Big Money pulling the strings. It's for that reason that I don't like new rules. I say let's do away with our current tax code and start again. Let's keep it simple.

[turk]

I'm in BP. Scratch everything. Start over. Get rid of the IRS. The VAT tax and luxury taxes here in the U.S.. Simplify it. It will save a lot of money. But I must admit I am speaking from a poor knowledge of how the budget and taxes work. It seems over-complicated and prone to fraud and abuse, and overheated rhetoric results.

[Amskeptic]

I'm in BP. overheated rhetoric results.

I KNEW IT. YOR A DUPE OF BRITISH PETROLEUM, first time I read your opinion I said to myself that guy is a oil guy, you want the planet to go down in flames in a oil spill fire that already destroyed the food chain, just wait youll see, it is a conspiracy led by the secret Cheney Society I knew it! How long have you been working for them?

[Amskeptic]

You know, at the heart of it, I feel like our government has tried change with the times, each update added another layer of rules; some rules are good if they are written to protect all of us as group of Americans. I think that rules benefiting any one particular group of people is likely to have a lobbyist working for someone's Big Money pulling the strings. It's for that reason that I don't like new rules. I say let's do away with our current tax code and start again. Let's keep it simple.

Overlay the sensible incontrovertible truth that modern society is more complicated. We do need to respond to the rapidly increasing volume of interaction and need for synchronization, read: regulation. In our individual chosen fields, I am sure we can look around and see that it is not truly onorus to have to record our batches of beer or mayonnaise or whatever to ensure safety, and that chemical companies must carefully fill out their bills of lading and spill sheets, and financial firms need to track the flow of money, come on . . . complex common sense is not a crime against freedom, it is a consequence of the miracle of modern life.
Colin

[Velokid1]

Yes, I get that and it would be nice if the public had a better idea of the baggage they were voting for...

[snip]

However, I still maintain that the solution lies not in trying to tame these jackals but to hold our elected officials, Velo, accountable to do the job they were hired to do on behalf of their employers, the people.

It really is a chicken/egg problem. How do we hold them accountable other than not electing them? But if we can't educate others about the reasons to not elect them (or why we should DEMAND different candidates to vote on), how do you keep from electing them?

Because we are never in an election year choosing between a Good Guy and a Bad Guy; they're all the Bad Guy. Because they all get their the same way: corporate campaign financing.

I do think that public campaign financing is the answer. And to make corporate and individual campaign contributions illegal.

[BellePlaine]

Here's a promise to myself; finally waking up to the idea that there is no free lunch, during the next election that I participate in, I will choose my candidate based on their sponsors and my feelings towards those sponsors. I’ll vote for the corporations/unions/Big Money of my liking instead of their puppet.

[RussellK]

You may have to choose none then. It seems crazy but some corporations donate funds to both candidates. We need some serious campaign reform and change the amount of access corporate interests have to our congressman. I swear some day we'll be watching the State of the Union Address and there will be neon signs advertising Mazda and Burger King in the chamber. There will be product placement behind the podium. Instead of a glass of water the VP will have a Pepsi in his hands and the Speaker will be back there changing his hat every 5 seconds.

[turk]

I'm in BP. overheated rhetoric results.

I KNEW IT. YOR A DUPE OF BRITISH PETROLEUM, first time I read your opinion I said to myself that guy is a oil guy, you want the planet to go down in flames in a oil spill fire that already destroyed the food chain, just wait youll see, it is a conspiracy led by the secret Cheney Society I knew it! How long have you been working for them?

I'm doing a one man show. I am Dick Cheney. 50,000 comedians outta work, so I'm doing this a sliding scale budget. You just pay what you can.