John Kerry

[Velokid1]

Rant over. I really have to stop reading these posts, you guys probably think I'm some kind of lunatic.



Bill

Bill, I can't speak for others but while I disagree with you often, the last thing I think you are is a lunatic. No way. I hope you never stop posting. And I mean that sincerely.

[spiffy]

True dat, and it keeps my college educated soldiering ass at home.

Throw a few Wal Marts up out there...that'll get em distracted for awhile.

[Randy in Maine]

The sad truth is that the man cannot tell a joke worth crap to save his life.

[vdubyah73]

The sad truth is he meant it. He has said things like this many times in the past.

Bill

[Velokid1]

If he meant it the way it came out, the only sad part as I see it is that he apologized. My mom told me long ago, "Always stand in your truth."

(And if even one person mentions the word flip-flop, I'm burning this joint down... that term was shoved down our throats by a man who has flip-flopped like no man who has ever lived. Let's just call Kerry "disingenuous.")

[Amskeptic]

The sad truth is he meant it. He has said things like this many times in the past.

Bill

Did you read his notes?
It was a specific slam against GWB. He did not read it correctly. You can see him fumbling to find his place. Whatever, what he said was both correct for GWBs mangling of the war, and a sad truth about MANY people who signed up to serve only to find their lives thrown away in this idiot adventure.
Kerry served far more honorably than the pack of nitwits who are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Do you respect his service to the country? Do you respect the fact that he threw his career in jeopardy when he protested the Vietnam War because of PRINCIPLE? Does that reach you? Did his courage under fire mean anything to you? Or do you prefer that pig Cheney and that spoiled rich daddy's boy GWB who had "other priorities" than to serve? Do you know anything about Kerry's legislative record? That he has been pushing to supply the troops with sufficient armor and supplies? That he has been a champion of Veteran's Benefits?
Please read Spiffy's response.
Colin

[vdubyah73]

Have you paid attention to what the swift boat veterans that served with him have said. The fringe of the far left look upon the military with disdain. The people in control of the far left are the 60's generation flower children trying to validate their youth. Their civil disobedience produced good things like civil rights and the end to the Vietnam war. Those things needed to be done. Vietnam was a waste of lives because of everybodies fear of communism. The war on terror is different they attacked us. They first major atttack that Iknow of against western civilization was the Black September attack against the Israeli Olymipic team in Munich, 1972.the first ACT OF WAR against the US was in Sudan our ambassador and other diplomats were assassinated, 1973

As far as the war in Iraq being illegal. Try googleing UN Iraq resolutions and read this particular communication from the US and Great Britain it lays out particular UN resolutions giving legal authority for the war in Iraq.

http://www.un.org/News/dh/iraq/iraq-blu ... 2-1198.pdf
iraq-blue-e-110702-1198.pdf (application/pdf Object)


I gotta stop reading these posts they make my blood pressure go up. What you guys are striving for is a good and admirable thing however you need "rough men ready to do violence on your behalf so you can sleep at night " author unknown

http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/001904.html
Mudville Gazette

Bill
Edited to add more info

[Amskeptic]

I gotta stop reading these posts they make my blood pressure go up. What you guys are striving for is a good and admirable thing however you need "rough men ready to do violence on your behalf so you can sleep at night " author unknown

Hang in there, Bill, you're doing fine.
Yes, we differ greatly on how to go about living in a crowded world.

I will defend the power of negotiation and civil behavior to my last breath.
Don't give me the Victimological "they attacked us first" crap. We have been doing violence to their culture long before 1972. We have installed their governments and and we destroyed their governments the better which to exploit their resources for decades.

Remember this Bill, please. . . . . . . . the attacks of lunatic terrorist jihadists DID NOT give us moral permission to slaughter civilians. . . the number of whom is so dramatically greater than any we have lost as to render our justifications obscene.
Colin

[Velokid1]

What you guys are striving for is a good and admirable thing however you need "rough men ready to do violence on your behalf so you can sleep at night " author unknown

Rough men? I see some cowardly men in Washington armed with pens and paper and large bankrolls. And I bet we'll see whole generation of excessively rough young men and women coming back from a needless war that they will spend the rest of their lives trying to reconcile.

I don't see the war on Iraq as being done on my behalf or on the behalf of even a majority of Americans. If it were justified, the men at the top wouldn't have needed to spend the last 5 years telling lies to get us there and keep us there. This war was waged on the behalf of the people who stand to gain financially from it in ways larger than I can even comprehend.

[steve74baywin]

Seriously,,,the people of Iraq did not attack us. These men in office are evil and rotten fairies,,,not tough men. (Tough men hide and send poor kids to die???)
But yes Vietnam was allowed by the fear of Communism, (another form of goverment), but yet when mentioned why do other thoughts pop in many peoples minds????(evil, red enemy with nukes for us) Programing, deception and propaganda. It was just another form of goverment. Today, these current wars are done cause of the fear of terrorism.... People have been fooled again.
Bill, no pun intended, but there is hope for you, your almost starting to see the whole picture, just still tons of deception layered in there.

[vdubyah73]

you guys didn't read the UN link did you?

Bill

[Randy in Maine]

Yes I read it.

The swiftwater veterns for truth was a scam though formed by a bunch of old Dick Nixon boys. Not a big secret. Those boys could not cover up a cat turd.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?ti ... _for_Truth

http://www.factcheck.org/article231.html

[vdubyah73]

Randy both of your links are liberal mouthpieces. Go back and read the UN link do a search on "UN iraq resolutions" The war is legit.

Bill

[Elwood]

Bill and Randy I respect both of your posts and opinions, that being said what will either of you do to change what you feel is wrong with "our"goverments heading? You both are no doubt up-standing citizens and will vote and speak your veiws on this internet easy format but will it matter?and to who???

Bill~ I raised two daughters, both college graduates as a single Mom with no degree and protested the Viet Nam war strongly and held in the aftermath many damaged and hurting young men in my arms crying and troubled by wounds and agent orange . Kinda hard to forget what war does to our BRAVE??? Yes I know this is a differant kind of conflict, but would you really be proud of your daughter? Come on, incourger her to seek a career in Bio- Medicine that uses solar energy or preventive practices, Could be a good thaing and really needed.

BTW I went back to collage after turning 40 It was a wonderfull experiance.

[DjEep]

First off Bill, we've been waiting for you to start really debating. Other view points make life "spicy." The only exposure I have out here to views like your's is through the likes of Rush and Laura .

Now,

Vietnam was a waste of lives because of everybodies fear of communism. The war on terror is different they attacked us.

There goes that "they" again. Once again, again, agian, no Iraqi attacked us. Those that did only killed 3000 people. In response we've caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands. Not an even trade, and perfect fodder for "terrorist" recruiters. It would not be unfair for an Iraqi to kill me for being "Amerikan" now... thanks... Too bad we are now the "terrorists" and our once honorable military is the "recruiter."

As far as the war in Iraq being illegal. Try googleing UN Iraq resolutions and read this particular communication from the US and Great Britain it lays out particular UN resolutions giving legal authority for the war in Iraq.

Bush doesn't give a shit about the UN, so why should I? This war isn't about the UN. It is about 9/11, no wait, Saddam, no wait, al-Qaida, no wait....

I gotta stop reading these posts they make my blood pressure go up.

Please don't stop! You're starting to get it!

What you guys are striving for is a good and admirable thing however you need "rough men ready to do violence on your behalf so you can sleep at night " author unknown

I don't need anyone to do "violence on my behalf." I am a 24 year old male, fully capable, and can do "violence" on my own "behalf" if justified. And I sleep fine at night, unless I am thinking about the poor Iraqi children with bloody stumps for parents.

Violence is like not voting. One person choosing to reject violence or to vote isn't going to make a difference, but "people" is just many "persons."

If you think the point of Iraq is to prevent attack here, I'd sacrifice a few more Amerikans to "terror" any day if it brings us closer to peace (I include myself here, I am not afraid of the big bad "Terrorist.")

Amerikan, Iraqi they are all human. They have the same worth. It is more effective, though more difficult, to lead by example, than to lead by gunbarrel.